Lets talk Night Vision

[SHTFCO]

Obviously some of us cant afford or justify going out and dropping 3-5k on Level 3 NVG's me being included in that. So Ive been researching NV and found the Night Owl Igen 20/20 to be on par with level 2 and even some Level 3 Tubes. This is a Digital Night vision but the reviews are fantastic. Link http://www.igen2020.com/ at around 350-400$ its very affordable. Having a tactical advantage at night in SHTF scenario's can definitely make a difference.

Anyone try, use or gotten their hands on this unit?

[SHTFCO]

Melissa thanks yeah Ive been researching alot on Youtube. Thats where IM finding alot of great reviews and usage videos. This little guy here looks like great quality. Wonder if I could mount it to a helmet for moving around. curious as to how the depth perception is for this.

[AD]

I have a NVS-14 and love it.

[SHTFCO]

I have a NVS-14 and love it.

So Jealous FYI we have been on the go all day AD call you a bit later.

[AD]

Heading out on the boat to go to dinner. Tomorrow will be better.

[unseenone]

For the money, the company makes decent budget stuff.

I have one that's about 3 years old, that would certainly do in a pinch. Remember, you will most likely benefit with an external IR source.

I e-mailed the company once, in November with some questions, and never got an answer, which is a bit disappointing. I wanted to know if their low end units where controlled under State Department regulations.

[CelticRaven]

So I'll toss some thoughts here even though again this is an older post.

NVG's well as stated here they aren't cheap. In fact they are down right expensive. Almost any near IR system is actually quite expensive and no it isn't the markup they are quite expensive to produce. That said lets talk about some features and maybe a few items that will change in your life by using them.

I am basing everything I say here on personal experience which is fairly diverse, I also own a tactical shooting company that we started based on that almost NOBODY out there has any experience shooting with NVG's, which includes large portions of the armed forces and the hundreds of LE departments that were getting NVG's at a song from DHS for a while. I'm not going to claim I am the worlds expert but I am going to say I know a lot more and have put a lot more rounds down the pipe in the dead black of night then most people.

First quality and features.

Understanding the difference between tubes and image quality is actually very scientific when you get into technology. What I will suggest is looking at a trusted source that has some detailed information on the comparison between tubes. The first stop I would suggest is here: TNVC Reviews and Comparisons

There is a 5 part comparison to multiple kinds of night vision there which in my opinion is unparalleled anywhere else on the public market.

Now lets talk about the specific unit mentioned here, then maybe some more general stuff later. So the unit appears at first look to be some form thermal(ish) unit. They don't really have any spec's on their website to discuss tubes, cooling, image rendering or technology behind it so I am guessing here. So lacking that information, my professional recommendation is STAY AWAY. My guess is this scope will die when you can least afford it, by the other posts you might have problems getting it serviced then as well.

My history with NVG equipment started back in the mid-90's when I bought a Gen I, Russian scope that was re-branded for sale in the US. How do I know it was Russian? Well Mr. Smarty pants cause I have had the joker open and the tube has Russian writing all over it... Then I took it to a guy that IS Russian that I work with and found out it IS Russian and the tube was made in the early 90s. Since that unit which I think I paid $350 for at Costco or Sams club back then, I have owned or had the privilege of using some of the best near IR tech in the world. For sake of this conversation, I am going to keep the discussion to stuff that isn't in the $50k range, and is easily obtainable.

First cost. There is no way any company out there is producing a generation 2+ tube and putting it into a viable system that is less then $2k. If you find a company that is ACTUALLY still producing second gen. tubes I'd like to know who they are. Most Gen2 tubes you see are leftovers these days. They are old, replacing them can be difficult. This point alone brings me to the modern Gen 3 & Gen 3+ units.

QUALITY! I have heard many people say I'll get by with X. Until X doesn't function in the most basic of functions. Your NVG system does no good if you have to be closer to your target then using its light/ir amplification then your target can identify you with using regular ambient light. Various companies use VERY different standards for the quality control. An ITT Exelis tube has huge benefits such as clarity, and reduced streaking vs many of their competitors. All Gen 3 is not made equal is my point here. If your not an expert, USE THE EXPERTS!!! I have dealt with the guys at TNVC (TNVC.COM) for years in my needs and equipment. I can call them, and get refereed to someone who is a specialist if I don't know what I am doing and they actually use the stuff they sell they are helpful and nice, and eager to help you.

Next usage! How are you planning to use your NVG system? Stationary no movement? Anything you cant mount to your head and keep both hands free that is about all your really going to do. First second you bring it to your eye you screw up your natural night vision. Second, ever tried walking though the woods and brush with one hand at your face holding a pair of binoculars? Let me know how that works out for you. Oh and you can forget shooting completely with that setup. Somewhere hear the other day I saw A. American had a pic (I think from his pack thread) that had the NVGs with their standard issue 'skull crusher' head gear. While I can if I really had to use that setup, it is possible. I will post some pics in the next few days of the helmet system I use when I have time. I can wear my helmet for days on end, and not end up with a migraine because it has cut off blood flow and has sharp pinching corners.

Rifle Mounting, again we are back to the walk in the woods conversation. I have hunted coyote for years sitting from atop the roof or on a large hill at our hunt club prone scope mounted on my rifle right behind my EoTech. Guess what you can't do??? Go use that scope to walk though the woods with it mounted on your gun! Try holding your rifle at a sighted eye level for an extended period of time and walk around. I give you 5-7 min before you need a rest and that is assuming your in shape. Long story short, rifle mounted is for an overwatch type of activity.

I would like to get into laser and targeting systems but am running short on time at the moment, hope some of this helps if you all want me to keep spouting on, I'll be happy to say the word.

[DMH]

Please keep spouting on! Would love to learn more about this subject. If only I could win the lottery.

[hsehntr98]

I agree. I would like to hear more also. Would like to get a set but have no clue what to look for.

[Boston_Joe]

Ditto. keep it coming.

[angeryamerican]

When I started looking for NVG's I did some research and settled on a PVS-14 with an ITT tube. The thing is amazing. Granted it was expensive but CelticRaven says, you get what you pay for. In my use so far it has performed exceptionally. I used in the role of OPFOR during some training. The other side had four times as many people as we did along with radios and a number of other things. But with the NVG we were able to avoid them by keeping them at a distance.

NVG is a force multiplier and a huge aid to have in your kit. I'm looking at adding a second PVS-14 for the simple reason two is one and one is none.

[CelticRaven]

AngryAmerican does make a good point here. The ITT tubes are some of the best out there. On advise from a sage that has more time using night vision then I have been alive (and I am 40) he strongly suggested avoiding tubes and such from ATN, and pretty much promised the standards for quality control aren't there, and that is why 'we' don't use them. I need to break some kit outta the safe, but will take some pictures later. What topics you guys want me to hit on? Aiming systems? Head mounts? If you didn't go read the 5 part article I linked I suggest doing so, it will remove MANY questions you may have. The biggest thing is the GEN comparison.

[roach2654]

And?

[CelticRaven]

And?

And what? I have a pretty decent amount of experience working under conditions that dictate using NVG technology. My question was simple, (I thought) what topic do you want to cover? Even if the open of this topic was on an NVG device I wouldn't buy for half the price, I am willing to give you my thoughts on any of the systems and what you need to make them function. I'd just like a topic to start on... maybe one someone is interested in solving a problem in their kit.

[unseenone]

I'm interested in NVG gear, scopes that do not fall under ITAR restrictions, or can be bought by a foreign person legally from a source other than US. Think Safari outfitters in South Africa..