New Homestead Progress

[Zef_66]

So I'm not sure how much I've shared about my new homestead. But I thought I would make a thread about our new homestead and the progress. I will probably update every now and then.

So let's see, start at the beginning they said. But I'll keep it short. Well, my wife and I purchased 68 acres in the mountains of north central PA in 2009. We've been slowly working on getting it ready to build a new homestead. This includes clearing trees, putting in a driveway, drilling a well, etc.

Recently I've been working on getting a 1200 gallon water tank installed. I got it basically done over the weekend. And that made me very happy. A lot of work went into it. But it will be very worth it in the long run.

So the 1200 gallon tank sits about 80 feet vertically up the hill from where the well is. So I can run a generator, pump water out of the well, pump it up the hill, fill the tank (which takes about 4 hours to fill), then let gravity do it's thing and have running water back down at the bottom of the hill. Here is a little diagram:



And here is a pictorial of how I did it:

Step 1: Buy 1200 Gallon water tank, 1000' of 1" water plastic water line, fittings, etc and move it up the hill with the backhoe


Step 2: Dig a ditch 4 to 5 feet deep and 350 feet long from well up the hill to where tank will sit




Step 3: Move any large rocks out of the way. This was the largest. The bucket on the backhoe is 2 feet wide. The rock was probably 5 feet wide by 10 feet long and almost 2 feet think in the middle


Step 4: Dig hole into hill and place tank


Step 5: Place water lines into ditch and connect to tank


Step 6: Install yard hydrant and electrical box for generator and backfill ditch


Step 7: Backfill tank to cover with minimum 2 feet of dirt


Step 8: Connect generator and fill tank with water. Open valve and enjoy running water!


It seems so easy when I just type up 8 steps!

[tk]

Lots of work indeed. Having1200 gallons of gravity fed water to your home is a hell of a good idea. Is that the way you plan to leave the system when you have power to your house ? Or are you going to put a pressure tank inside ? You may have just given me an idea. Is there a way for you to connect a pressure gauge in line . Just wondering what kind of pressure you get at that distance and elevation drop . For my own curiosity .
You look like your building in my kind of PA woods. I can see a few Cur dog pups self training and treeing in those woods.

I don't know where in PA you might be and you probably know more than me . But if you get stumped on something don't be afraid to PM me. I have a little experience in a lot of different area's and know a lot of people that know even more. There's fewer and fewer of us PA hill Billy's left. But those of us that are . Are always willing to help if we can. TK

[roach2654]

Great idea Zef. Good pics also.

[Cwi555]

Zef, that should give you ~34.5 psi head pressure. That angle should be around 13.5°, so you should have some significant velocity on that drop as well. There is a lot you can do with something like that. Good job.

[Cwi555]

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-head-water-d_1354.html

Lots of work indeed. Having1200 gallons of gravity fed water to your home is a hell of a good idea. Is that the way you plan to leave the system when you have power to your house ? Or are you going to put a pressure tank inside ? You may have just given me an idea. Is there a way for you to connect a pressure gauge in line . Just wondering what kind of pressure you get at that distance and elevation drop . For my own curiosity .
You look like your building in my kind of PA woods. I can see a few Cur dog pups self training and treeing in those woods.

I don't know where in PA you might be and you probably know more than me . But if you get stumped on something don't be afraid to PM me. I have a little experience in a lot of different area's and know a lot of people that know even more. There's fewer and fewer of us PA hill Billy's left. But those of us that are . Are always willing to help if we can. TK

[tk]

I knew someone would come up with a formula.

[Tex]

Zef, It looks like you have some work in front of, but please keep the posts coming. I like the idea of uphill water storage. Are you going to have livestock?



Tex

[Zef_66]

Is that the way you plan to leave the system when you have power to your house ? Or are you going to put a pressure tank inside ?
You look like your building in my kind of PA woods. I can see a few Cur dog pups self training and treeing in those woods.

I don't know where in PA you might be and you probably know more than me . But if you get stumped on something don't be afraid to PM me. I have a little experience in a lot of different area's and know a lot of people that know even more. There's fewer and fewer of us PA hill Billy's left. But those of us that are . Are always willing to help if we can. TK

I plan to leave it inline even after we move in. That will keep the water in the tank circulating through and always fresh. At minimum I should always have a minimum of 500 gallons of fresh water available. With rationing, that should easily last my family two weeks. I figure a full tank should last us a month. We have a stream that runs through our property, so water can be pulled from there for flushing toilets and such, if needed. Having this tank should also increase the life expectancy of the well pump since it will only be pumping a couple times a week. Most well pumps turn on and off several times a day. I will only add a pressure tank inside if I need to. I hope I don't have to. I do have a pressure gauge that I plan to test the pressure with this weekend. So I can report back.

The location is outside of Williamsport, PA. Just a little north of the very center of the state. I will keep you in mind if I need someone to bounce ideas off of. Thanks!

Zef, that should give you ~34.5 psi head pressure.

Those elevations and distances are not exact. But they should be close. I was hoping to get around 40 psi since that seems to be a standard minimum for household stuff to work. It all depends on how high we raise the house as well. And if we are going to have a toilet and shower on the second floor. My plan is to just wait until the house is built and see how everything works. Then adjust if necessary.

Are you going to have livestock?

We have 2 kids, do they count? Honestly, no, I don't plan on having any livestock. If I would keep anything it would be a couple head of cattle and a couple pigs for the kids to raise through the summer and fall, then butcher or sell at the start of winter. If I do anything like this, I have several acres of ground between the road and the creek that would be perfect to keep animals. With the creek, I wouldn't need to use the well for watering them.

We do have plenty of water available from the well though. We drilled in the middle of one of the driest summers in recent years. We only ended up drilling down 125 feet and got 20 gallons a minute. The neighbor about a half mile from me drilled after I did, when his spring ran dry, and he only drilled 80 feet and got 50 gallons per minute. So we have plenty of water below us to do what we need to do.

[Zef_66]

Here are our current plans for the house.

This is what I drew up initially:


And what the drafter came up with:


And here is the first floor:


The second floor will just be open attic space....for now. If we get busy and have lots more kids, we can finish that off later for more bedrooms. But it is much easier, and cheaper, to put everything we may need in there now.

[Cwi555]

Zef,

You will need another 15' to get over 40 psi by gravity feed but there are ways to get around that. If you're planning to make it go upgrade in the house, you will also need a surge tank with appropriate check valves to maintain pressure for the house. The surge tank can also be pressurized lightly from a tertiary pump to add to the pressure. From an energy standpoint, you have the gravity feed providing the bulk of energy input. Example;

Energy required in ft-lbs = weight of water x feet of lift. 1 psi pressure = 2.31 feet of water head The energy required to create a pressure of 43 psi is the same as the energy required to lift water 100 feet. Once you have the required energy, efficiency has to be considered. Without being there, knowing exact layout etc, it would be difficult to figure. A rough estimate of loss would be around 15 percent from the gravity feed alone (friction, etc). Your actual will be roughly 25-28 psi as it sits. 14 or so added psi would therefore be what your looking for.

Since the energy imparted by gravity has you ~2/3rd there already, your energy required to make up that difference will be significantly less than if pulling out of a ground level cistern etc. That's where the surge tank comes in.

The rate of doing work is equal to the rate of using energy. Kinetic energy of the water is being partially converted to mechanical energy.
Conservation of energy in this case applies to the Bernoulli Equation.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pber.html#beq

The Bernoulli Equation can be considered to be a statement of the conservation of energy principle appropriate for flowing fluids

End result for you is, some consideration regarding the physics of it will go a long way towards solving the engineering required to meet your goals. You've given yourself a hefty energy bonus by that drop, now you just have to capitalize on it.

[Cwi555]

By the way, how does your tank get filled? Think I missed that part. Is your well next to it?

[Zef_66]

Zef,

You will need another 15' to get over 40 psi by gravity feed but there are ways to get around that. If you're planning to make it go upgrade in the house, you will also need a surge tank with appropriate check valves to maintain pressure for the house. The surge tank can also be pressurized lightly from a tertiary pump to add to the pressure. From an energy standpoint, you have the gravity feed providing the bulk of energy input. Example;

Energy required in ft-lbs = weight of water x feet of lift. 1 psi pressure = 2.31 feet of water head The energy required to create a pressure of 43 psi is the same as the energy required to lift water 100 feet. Once you have the required energy, efficiency has to be considered. Without being there, knowing exact layout etc, it would be difficult to figure. A rough estimate of loss would be around 15 percent from the gravity feed alone (friction, etc). Your actual will be roughly 25-28 psi as it sits. 14 or so added psi would therefore be what your looking for.

Since the energy imparted by gravity has you ~2/3rd there already, your energy required to make up that difference will be significantly less than if pulling out of a ground level cistern etc. That's where the surge tank comes in.

The rate of doing work is equal to the rate of using energy. Kinetic energy of the water is being partially converted to mechanical energy.
Conservation of energy in this case applies to the Bernoulli Equation.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pber.html#beq

End result for you is, some consideration regarding the physics of it will go a long way towards solving the engineering required to meet your goals. You've given yourself a hefty energy bonus by that drop, now you just have to capitalize on it.

Yes, this is my plan, to add a small pump in the house - if needed - to up the pressure to where it needs to be. So yes, I would need a pressure tank as well there. I measured the pressure using a cheap pressure gauge this past weekend and it reads 35psi. Could be higher or lower. But it's not bad. But not quite where I want it to be. Regardless, it's what I have to work with. I plan to build the house and see how everything functions and works just as it is now. Then if I need to upgrade and install a secondary pump and tank to maintain a higher pressure, I can do that.

[Zef_66]

By the way, how does your tank get filled? Think I missed that part. Is your well next to it?

The well is close to where the house will be built. That is the most accessible location for the well rig to get to. The tank is not very accessible by a big truck. See the first picture of the first post with my lovely artist skills showing the location of the pump to the tank and house.

[Zef_66]

So last weekend I had some more stuff to get done at the property. Friday night it was around 35°F at our current house and we had some slight rain and drizzle. Apparently it was cold enough at the future homestead to freeze on contact with the road surface.

I took some videos to show the wife. If you don't mind my mindless rambling, you guys can check them out. The dirt road I am driving on is an old railroad bed, so it is fairly flat and very solid. It needs some grading and stone on top which I plan to do once we move there. Our property is about 2 miles back this road.

[hsehntr98]

Looks like a good road in spite of the ice. Glad you made it safely. Looks like a beautiful spot for a home. Good luck.