Goats for dealing with insane shrubbery

[southernmom]

I guess all I know how to do is post in the farming section. I swear I do more than just deal with dirt and animals!

That being said. The back pasture has been taken over by shrubs, blackberry bushes (and when I say taken over-I mean it is snake haven back there) and all manner of annoying florida plant life. It hasn't been tended for the past 10 years or so. It's wild. There is a really wooded section that I can't even walk through and we can barely get the jeep through part of it. The sheep have cleared a small section but they haven't made a dent. I was thinking about getting a couple goats to eat the shrubs and maybe even milk at some point. The only thing stopping me is that while my sheep are well mannered and come home at 5pm sharp every evening, I don't know if the goats will 'herd' with them.
The fencing back there is laughable in a few sections and while it keeps the cows and sheep in, a goat would just climb right over. I'm not in a position to re fence a 40+ acre pasture that would also require moving fallen trees, etc. We could tractor but a lot of the shrubs have grown around and over fallen trees and hidden them and would hang up the mower. I'm thinking about getting a few cheap goats and taking chances on them herding up with the sheep and minding their manners.
input?

[Tex]

When I was still living down south and we had problem areas like you are describing, we would often times feed the cattle right in the middle of it. It is the wrong time of the year really for you to be feeding hay, but cows trying to get to the feed can clear alot of briars and thickets out in a big hurry.

I don't know for sure, but I am going to guess that the sheep and goats don't herd together too much. We have Angora goats and Boer goats and it is wierd how they will segregate themselves. Even knew goats that we have recently bought will go with the goats of its kind. Also, eventhough goats are browsers, they are like every other animal and they will go for the easiest feed. If you did buy a few cheap goats to put back there, you might consider an electric fence to confine them to that area during the day and then bring them in close to the headquarters at night. All of our goats come into the barn every evening, but that is because we feed them then in order to encourage them returning each evening.

When I lived in Oklahoma, we had 20 acres of logged over land that was covered in brush. I went and bought a heavy duty Stihl weedeater that I could put a circular saw blade on. I went through and mowed down some lanes where I could string up an electric fence and then I would isolate the goats in a small area of brush. As soon as they had that small area cleared up and all of the brush pushed down and stripped of greenery, I would move them to a new area. Basically it was a cell grazing type rotation and it really helped clean up alot of brush and briar thickets in a very quick manner. I had a small water trough that I would move to each new area so the goats had access to water. As soon as an area was cleared out as well as could be and the goats had been moved, I would go back in with the big weedeater and a chainsaw and I took down all of the trunks to the small trees and whatever vines were still there. It took some work on my part, but it was alot easier with the goats going in to do their work first.

Buying cheap goats may be a good way to get started, but I would not discount getting some good Boer meat goats. It will not take any more effort or feeding expense on your part to go ahead and raise some good goats that can eventually go into the freezer. Linda like the oldtimers say about "it doesn't cost any more to feed a good cow than it does to feed a sorry cow". Same deal here. Instead of buying some goats to be strictly brush eaters, buy some that will eat brush and then make meat for the table. It will cost a little more to get started, but it will pay off greatly over the long haul.

This is all my opinion based on what I have done in the past.

Very good question, Southernmom. And it doesn't bother me that you post more in this section than the others.


Tex

[Dode]

Goat are browsers and are more likely to climb or go through fences when they don't have enough browsing material, i.e., brush and more brush. If you put them in a grassy pasture, they will constantly be sticking their heads through the fence for brush on the other side. Their guts crave it. It is what they are made for.

Sheep, on the other hand, are made for grazing, i.e., grasses.

When you get your goats, don't get a buck, unless you neuter him right away. They stink to high heaven and will ruin the goat's milk and your sheep's wool. The stench is sickening. You can buy young bucks fairly cheap 'cause no one wants them, for that reason. Get yourself a California Bander and you'll make wethers of them in no time and they won't stink up the place. No matter how big their testicles are, you can use the California Bander on them. No surgical incisions to become infected that way. Good luck!

[redman2006]

Dode,

The banders here in the south are a bad deal. We see a lot of goats, even vaccinated ones, get tetanus because of them. The incision is much less likely to have complications. Up north, especially in the winter we used it a fair bit on livestock. Goats are especially prone to tetanus.

[Dode]

I was wondering, do the goats get an antibiotic injection when they are incised?

[redman2006]

They can, but usually just tetanus

[Dode]

So, why not tetanus when they are banded?

[redman2006]

They should receive both a tetanus vaccine prior to banding and a dose of the tetanus antitoxin at the time of banding.

Here is the real issue. Clostridial bacteria grow very nicely in anaerobic conditions. They like that just as when botulism grows in a can or jar in the absence of air. What better environment is there for anaerobic growth that a decaying set of festivals hanging from a critter's groin? The bacteria is easily controlled with good old penicillin. The toxin that it releases is the killer.

A critter castrated with a sharp, clean scalpel or knife has much less likely chance of that bacteria growing and producing toxin. The incision heals much more quickly. The rotting tissue is not left in contact. Pain is sharper earlier but diminishes more quickly with scalpel vs bands and the animals recover more quickly with fewer complications s and faster rate of gain after the procedure.

Having said that, young calves and goats in cold climates do well with it. Try banding in the south or a feed yard and complications go up quickly!

I would be happy to get more info for you. Tetanus is a nasty disease.

[Tex]

Thanks for the information, Redman. In your last couple of sentences you cleared up some confusion for me. I was going to say, we have never had any problems banding our goats, but there is a huge difference from a high and dry climate compared to a low and wet climate. Once they get so big, cutting is the only way to go in my opinion. Many people prefer to band simply because there is no blood, but that is not always the best way.

We need to catstrate all of our little bucks from this year and I believe we will just cut them. Having a big mess of goat fries sounds good too.

I didn't know that goats were more susceptible to tetanus than some of the other livestock animals. That's good information to have.


Tex

[Dode]

Definitely there are pros and cons to each method. I've seen month old bucklings get banded and only make a small 'baaaaaah' and go on about their business. Last year the vet cut some month old bucklings for my cousin and one was dead the next morning, with bleeding at the incision site. I've read that banding is preferred if the feed lot is quite muddy or the presence of a lot of flies. A lot of factors come into play, for sure.

Tex, I've never had 'fries'. Are they good? If so, that would be an incentive, for sure!

[Tex]

Dode, I've never had goat fries, but I don't imagine they would be much different than calf, lamb or hog.

When castrating, I try to always go by the signs if I am cutting them. Doing it that way, they always seem to bleed alot less.


Tex

[Dode]

Very interesting, about cutting by the signs. Planting by the signs works for gardens!

What do fries, in general, taste like? Squirrel brains? I don't like squirrel brains, but would gobble them down, if short on food. My dad always ate the fried brains, so I gave it a try when I was 8 or 9. He grew up dirt poor, so nothing was ever wasted. When he was 10, he would walk 5 miles to town, to buy two .22's for his rifle, so he could rabbit hunt. He was so good at it, that the local merchant would give him free bullets to kill the rabbits in his garden....... which he took home for supper for the family.

[redman2006]

Tex, when I worked in Montana, all the bulls that would not make the sale due to birth weight or some other issue were banded right away. It was fine there even in 93 when it was so wet.

The feedlots in Kansas where I worked used banding on everything due to a lack of skilled labor. Even with tetanus vaccines andantitoxin, we lost a substantial number. When wthe vet was out and cut them, we had no complications to speak of. We also saw a much faster rate of gain and return to feed with cutting vs banding.

Banding.came about for ease and due to a lack of skilled help rather than being better as such. Pros and cons either way.

We lost a damned bug steer to banding because of hemorrhage. When his testicles were nearly dried up and fell off, the band when with them. The artery was not fully healed and he shot blood everywhere. The pen riders found him too late.

When I castrate anything of any size, I go ahead and ligate or use an emasculator to decrease the bleeding. I just feel better than if a client calls me up to say we lost one because of hemorrhage.

[redman2006]

Deer fries are good too, but hard to get more than two at a time. I can't find anyplace here with calf fries.

Dode, the best ones are the size of a golfball or a little bigger and fried whole. Hard to describe, but darned good. Of course this is coming from a guy that likes sweetbreads too.

[Tex]

The bigger ones get sliced up and the smaller ones get halved, is how we do it.

Dode, they are sorta like chickenfried steak.


Tex