steer question

[southernmom]

Okay, getting ready to cut one of our little bulls to make him a steer to raise for meat. Now I remember back when Pop used to do it but he never taught me and I don't know what his decision making skills were in terms of which little bull to keep. We kept several bulls because we ran 4 different pieces of property and had enough cows that we would rotate bulls to keep several lines going. Of course when he died my grandmother sold the properties and the majority of the cows...but I digress.

I have 3 little bulls to choose from. (might be 4, there is one bull that I don't recall seeing born but only runs with our herd, not the other herd that shares our property. I'm keeping an eye on him to see who his mama is) One is stocky, solid and gonna be a BIG bull. (I call him ghostface cause of his coloring). I would like to keep him to trade/sell in the future. Then there is the little red bull with the 'v' shape on his forehead and I'll be honest, I like his coloring and his markings are so peculiar I would like to hang on to him for a while. That leaves a nice little red bull who is a little smaller than the others but there's just something about him that doesn't scream 'good breeder'. Not as stocky and his boy parts just look 'smaller' than the other bulls. I believe I will cut him. Now is there some other kind of consideration I need to keep in mind in regards to this decision?
Thanks a bunch!

[Tex]

Yes Southernmom, There are several things you need to keep in mind when making this decision. It would take me a good two hours to type it all out and I'm still not sure I could convey what I am trying to say. LOL. I will try to give you a call in a little while if you have time.

Happy Mothers Day, by the way. I hope all of those kids are giving you the Queen's Treatment today.


Tex

[MillenniumMan]

They wouldn't happen to be some of those bulls on 50 they're advertising in Mascotte are they?

[Tex]

Okay, getting ready to cut one of our little bulls to make him a steer to raise for meat. Now I remember back when Pop used to do it but he never taught me and I don't know what his decision making skills were in terms of which little bull to keep. We kept several bulls because we ran 4 different pieces of property and had enough cows that we would rotate bulls to keep several lines going. Of course when he died my grandmother sold the properties and the majority of the cows...but I digress.

I have 3 little bulls to choose from. (might be 4, there is one bull that I don't recall seeing born but only runs with our herd, not the other herd that shares our property. I'm keeping an eye on him to see who his mama is) One is stocky, solid and gonna be a BIG bull. (I call him ghostface cause of his coloring). I would like to keep him to trade/sell in the future. Then there is the little red bull with the 'v' shape on his forehead and I'll be honest, I like his coloring and his markings are so peculiar I would like to hang on to him for a while. That leaves a nice little red bull who is a little smaller than the others but there's just something about him that doesn't scream 'good breeder'. Not as stocky and his boy parts just look 'smaller' than the other bulls. I believe I will cut him. Now is there some other kind of consideration I need to keep in mind in regards to this decision?
Thanks a bunch!

Southernmom, there is alot of criteria to consider when choosing a herd bull
Birth weight
Weaning weight
Yearling weight
Milking ability of the females from that line
Scrotal size (Bulls with smaller nuts usually aren't as Good)
You also want a bull that breeds for type. The more uniform your calf herd is when you sell, the more money you make. Calf buyers have orders to fill and they buy according to type.

I don't know how many cattle you guys are running, but I would definitely be breeding for a uniform calf crop. If it we me and I could not afford to go and buy a good Angus type bull, I would pick out my best cow that has the most uniform cows from year to year and I would AI her to a good bull. You can use sexed semen to assure that you get a bull calf, or you can take your chances and possibly get a good heifer calf out of the deal. Ranchers should always be striving to improve their herds though.

The cattle buyers are starting to get more finicky on the quality of calves they buy because the American consumer is getting more finicky on what they eat. Having a uniform calf crop puts more dollars in the ranchers pocket consistently, as does having black calves. People may not be a fan of Angus cattle, but the Angus Association has done a good job of marketing themselves and a rancher can expect a nickel per pound premium when they sell black hided cattle. They also like the Angus calves because they do such a good job of weight gain when they are put on feed. When you sell cattle that look like Florida Cracker Cattle, you are shorting yourself. It was the same way for us in Texas when we were selling the same type of calves ourselves. If you are picking new herd bulls out of your current calf crops, you are guaranteeing that your cattle quality will not improve.

These are just a few of my personal opinions. On the calf that your gut is saying will not make a good breeder, get rid of him. If your gut is telling you that, it is probably right.

Call me later and we can talk more about it.


Tex

[doublel]

My family has been running cattle for decades and never kept a bull from our own cattle. Now mind you, when we sell our calves we almost always top the market and ranchers buy our heifer calves as replacements. This is because we buy good quality bulls. Right now my dad is selecting bulls with carcass genetic markers, as well as his ever present low birth weight requirement. If you can't afford to spend money on a bull, I think tex is right with the AI your top cow to a really good bull. Sorry this wasn't exactly answering your which calf to keep question, but is my honest answer.

[W.Lynn]

I've found it an interesting discussion, even if it is short. If anyone wants to add a bit more info as it comes to mind, I'll enjoy reading it.

[tk]

My opinion is this if it doesn't look good as a bull calf . Its not going to look good as a grown bull. I do agree growing a herd from with in is a slow process to making a uniform herd. So short of selling out and starting over your best bet is taking a few of your best cows and AI them to some top genetic bulls. Still a slow process but now you get some better genes in your herd.

[Jstwaiting]

I'll be the first with the inevitable dumb questions. Why the low birth weight requirement ?? Makes birthing easier with small calves ??

[W.Lynn]

Probably easier if you have to pull, though with human births, it's medically proven that a full size youngster is easier to push.

[tk]

You guessed it . You heard these guys talking about pulling calves and all the problems that come with it. A big old long legged calf turned the wrong way in a grown cow is a bitch. In a heifer it's a nightmare and a lot of times you lose both calf and heifer.

[W.Lynn]

All I ever knew about calves, was that it was kind of pointless to sacrifice a cow, to get to a calf that might not be worth squat. Sometimes, a calf will get their head wedged wrong, pulling it can break it's neck - only to look at what they'd given up to save the cow, and rue the decision because it was exactly the beast they needed.

You never know til it's over, so you just keep on working at it.

(No personal experience, just listening to old guys who get their morning coffee & BS at the gas station in Granger.)

[southernmom]

They wouldn't happen to be some of those bulls on 50 they're advertising in Mascotte are they?

No, these are our bulls from our cows. I'm just trying to decide which bull to cut so I can get him butchered when the time comes.

[Tex]

Ok, but what is the reason for leaving the others intact?


tex

[southernmom]

Thanks for all the input and sorry I couldn't get a call to you yesterday, Tex-the day got hectic and then it got away from me. I think the bull I've decided on is perfect from what I'm reading. His balls are small and his mama is one of our smaller cows.

We have a small (22 cows) but strong, healthy herd. One thing I can say about my grandmother is that she does not tolerate a 'fraudy' cow. We have a couple angus, some solid hereford, a couple limousine, and santa gertrudis with a bit of brahma mix down the line. Now we also have a herd of angus that run on our property and I have a deal with the owner that we keep them watered and tended and fed and we get hay and access to an angus bull this next year. (I begged her 20 years ago to get more angus but nooo how could I know anything. ugh.) I think that it will be a pain in the ass to deal with moving our bull so I am really considering doing the AI thing with a few of the heifers this next year when they get old enough. We need a new bloodline. I just have to get my mind wrapped around the mechanics of it and timing.

Unlike last year, We didn't have one bit of trouble with calves this year except for the one sick calf and now she is perfectly fine, running around with all the other calves. We only had to pull one calf that had been dead awhile in the cow but that was in the angus herd, and it was a mess, a really messy mess. Frank handled it well, though. We kept the cow up and she is fine and bred, now.

I do admit I love a cracker cow...and when I was younger we kept a few shorter horned ones when the herd was in the 50+ range. They calve very easy but they don't bring much and there's not a lot of meat on them. But trying to pen those cows with those monster longhorns...yikes. So I haven't tried to get any. They were allll over the place last year but I don't see them as much, now.

Ok I'm going to reread the thread again and see if I hit everything mentioned.

[southernmom]

My family has been running cattle for decades and never kept a bull from our own cattle. Now mind you, when we sell our calves we almost always top the market and ranchers buy our heifer calves as replacements. This is because we buy good quality bulls. Right now my dad is selecting bulls with carcass genetic markers, as well as his ever present low birth weight requirement. If you can't afford to spend money on a bull, I think tex is right with the AI your top cow to a really good bull. Sorry this wasn't exactly answering your which calf to keep question, but is my honest answer.

No, it's a great answer! I should clarify that the two bulls that have all the makings of good breeders will be traded for a new (young) bull or sold and I will buy more heifers. I'm just trying to decide who to cut to eat. I do love the funny marked calf but I know we can't breed back and he can't be a pet. We need to AI or get a new bloodline.