Hi from the uk!

[redman2006]

Sac, you can not rehabilitate evil.

[W.Lynn]

I take it you guys aren't too fond of Clinton then �� We have our own political warfare going on in the UK at the moment.

Quite the opposite. There are still enough people who know history, that are quite able to say what happens when a people allow themselves to be disarmed. And there are always elitists who want to disarm the people for a variety of evil reasons.

No matter what else, a man should be able to protect his family. This is the basis of all other freedom, and it's why "progressives" work so hard to tear men down.

[Sacajawea]

Condor - the problem with Clinton (and a lot of other politicans, regardless of party affiliation) is that they say one thing and do another, usually the complete opposite. They USED TO pretend that they cared what the people thought and wanted, but that's pretty much ancient history these days.

Clinton and Obama's pandering to the protesters (and incitement of them for her own devious purposes) and lack of punishment for property damage & violence - not to mention their own criminal actions which they are not being held to account for, yet inventing all kinds of mud to throw at Trump just to keep things unbalanced & tense are all actions that disgust more Americans than our media will admit.

It kinda reminds me of the events that preceeded the Magna Carta, you know?

[Condor24]

W.lynn - I have got to say you guys over the pond do like to keep yourselves armed. Are the laws and methods of obtaining a firearm in the US quite easy to manage? I own my own firearm in the uk but in order to get it I had to jump through sooooooo many hoops to get it, including having the proper land to shoot and hunt on (I only hunt small vermin and only take what I can cook and eat or give to friends and family), I had to have an officer from my local police force firearms team come and interview, check my security in the house and see how much ammunition I intend to stock as well as doing background checks on all my family and myself before they would consider giving me a license to hold firearms. In a way I like that security is so tight as it prevents any old nut case getting hold of a firearm, however it is a pain in the backside for any legitimate hunter or shooter to get a rifle.

Here where I live I work in local law enforcement (not DHS style law enforcement by the way haha) and I can safely say that never once have I felt the need for a gun at my side when dealing with knives or violence as our training is very effective when dealing with these things close quarters. The current events in Manchester and London however I think will change all of that and I think there will be a massive call for armed officers on our teams in our home towns. I would like to to know how you guys (and gals if there any any here) think of how we do things over here in relation to firearms?

SAC - I must agree with you as we face the same problems with our politicians over here and I'm sure it's the same the world over. We are currently in a right mess of an election over here and I can honestly not decide who to vote because they are all as bad as each other, you guys at least seem to have a clear cut divide between your parties but ours who used to be clear cut are now filled with silver spoon toting entiltled SOB's who have never worked a day in there life. I come from a very proud area which was famous for its mining and weaving in the uk so we count on the party which was born in the north to support our views but it never does these days so none of us know who to trust. Apologies the rant it's just a crap time for everyone.

[redman2006]

The takING of firearms from the responsible is akin to taking cars away due to drunks. Why?

And as you see, in attacks like the Hedbow attack, it simply does not work.

As to training for dealing with knives, I am sorry, but it is not effective. If you close with someone wielding a knife with any skill or determination, you will get cut. You have several officers in the hospital that show this right now.

We believe we have a God given, inalienable right to defend ourselves. Frankly, you don't bring a knife to a gun fight is a common motto here.

Self defense is only one aspect. What happened with King George and the colonies is still remembered. The second ammendment is there to prevent tyranny and dictators.

I can site many historical cases like the general of Japan refusing to consider occupation of the us because," there would be a gun behind every blade of grass." Or the gun grabbers of Germany just before the extermination of millions of jews, or......

Nope, as the old saying goes, those willing to exchange freedom for security are deserving of neither.

[airdrop]

When the people can't defend themselves or other's they become food for the beasts that circle us . Welcome condor24

[redman2006]

An additional thought: what happened in the bridge attack? ONE good guy with a gun stopped it. It took that good guy with a gun to stop it. What happened in France when the lorry ran over how many people? One good guy with a gun stopped it.

Now, why would you advocate a heless population, standing there watching and running before the attack, or as in the case of the bridge, trying to defend themselves with chairs and beer bottles as they are slaughtered rather than to be allowed to lawfully carry arms and defend themselves?

Because of what someone might do? On that basis, no one shall be allowed to have a vehicle as they might run down pedestrians. No one shall be allowed to have a kitchen knife because of attacks like the bridge or the decapitation of your solider on the British streets. No one shall be allowed an ax handle, or a cricket bat, a rock, a sling shot, a bow, a sharpened stick, a cane, a..........pick your weapon.

It baffles me how people think disarming good citizens does anything other than make a weaker victim for those that disregard the laws anyway.

One citizen, armed and eating dinner with is family could have stopped that much earlier than waiting for armed police to arrive. And at the very least, I would have been able to defend my family from the knives of these sorry bastards.

Sorry, I do not care to be a helpless victim.

[Condor24]

I can respect that redman, and what I was saying was no criticism to your guys right to own firearms for self defence, in a sense your preaching to the choir... I am a firearm owner however not in the sense of self defence. I feel as if we may be a little better prepared if our intelligence services had acted sooner rather than much much too late. The issue with us isn't disarming us... we have never been armed, well not legally at least. It is crap that a couple of our lads are in the hospital and it would have been ended VERY quickly if citizens were allowed to carry firearms, however our government will never let us carry firearms for self defence, hell we can't carry a bloody potato peeler without a peeling license... This is why I want to move to the US. I mean beside the liberty with firearms I like your spirit... and your food, and music haha. It's why I like reading AA's books. It gives me a picture of that patriotism. It's quite refreshing.

[Condor24]

Oh and to add to that, you guys have PUBLIC land for hunting and camping and hiking, ALL the land in the UK is owned by someone so it's bloody hard work to get out anywhere without paying through the nose, campfires? Not a chance fishing wherever? Not a chance. It's quite frustrating.

[redman2006]

Come on over and visit. We can find some hogs to hunt, or deer or .....

I did not mean to sound as though I am railing against you.

One of the many other pro gun mottos: God created man, col Colt made them equaly. True in that my 105 lbs wife can't defend against a determined ed 225 lbs man, without her pistol.

[Condor24]

If I could afford a flight right now and had friends who where willing to house me I would for sure be over! I didn't take it as a railing mate, you have strong beliefs and opinions, I can empathise with your reasons completely and you are justified in your reasoning on a related note I've always wanted to hunt boar, I lived in Austria for a while but didn't get the opportunity to have a go, I mean who the hell doesn't love a roast hog?! Unless your vegan... but let's not go there haha

[Sacajawea]

No, there really isn't much difference in our two established political parties - they're equally corrupt and criminal. Both parties are fracturing - with many moving to the extremes of political belief - if not, outright destroying themselves. The Republicans are barely civil to the Tea Party/Constitution party members who started out Republican. The Democrats are split between the Clinton-era NeoCons (I know it's confusing; sounds like this is GOP, and there ARE neocons in the GOP)... and the Bernie Sanders, commie-lites.

Most people in the US aren't going to be 100% at any extreme; we're muddling through somewhere in between; trying to get by until _________ (life goal of some sort); and hoping they don't attract the attention of the 17 different federal law enforcement/intel agencies.

[kickstand]

I replied to this thread this morning, but evidently forgot to hit "submit"...never was good at submitting anyways. Let me ask a question Condor... what would have happened to your firearms permit if, during the application or interview process, you had stated that you wanted a firearm for self/family defense?

[Condor24]

A good question kickstand! As far as British law goes we cannot own a firearm for self defence. Full stop. The laws are EXTREMELY tight on any gun owner, the only reasons you can give are for hunting, pest control and target shooting. All need verification from your land owner. It's absolutely mad how tight they are. Can you request a firearm in the US for purely self defence?

[Beowulf]

Pest control I should think would cover that. You don't need a reason in most states.