Going Home could happen tomorrow.....

[Kessler]

Kess, I use blue 15 gallon jugs to store both water and fuel in. They are manageable for one person, a hand truck makes it a lot easier. You can't plan for everything, all we can do is the best we can. But having a diversified pantry is better than 10K rounds of ammo and no food or water. I try to add some of each type as I can. Food purchase one time, ammo another. Next time maybe medical. One thing I think people often overlook is clothes. Someone mentioned weather appropriate clothing and was correct that it's part of your shelter system. But how many of us store extra clothes? If you have kids are you planning for their growth, have extra shoes in the sizes up from where they are now? How about boots for you and them? More than one pair for you? In such an event shoes would wear out quick. I once heard of an old Russian guy buying shoes in a thrift store, bags of them in all types and sizes. When asked why he said he lived through the collapse of the USSR and shoes became very hard to find. I was struck by what he said next, when it happens here I'll be ready, I'll be rich. He had no doubt but that the same sort of things would take place here one day.

AA, where are you getting your blue 15 gallon barrels or containers, if you don't mind disclosing your source? Barrels up to maybe 20-25 gallons are easily moved compared to 250 gallon or even 55 gallon containers. Are you buying new blue containers or used? Thanks!
Kess

[Kelly]

Am a big fan of storing a bit of gasoline, and these cans are outstanding. Get some while you 'can' (hehe):

http://www.lexingtoncontainercompany.com/Nato-Jerry-Cans.html

They have other storage options, including water.

Kelly

[Kessler]

Am a big fan of storing a bit of gasoline, and these cans are outstanding. Get some while you 'can' (hehe):

http://www.lexingtoncontainercompany.com/Nato-Jerry-Cans.html

They have other storage options, including water.

Kelly

Those are great cans no doubt about it, but $50 for a 5 gallon can will break my meager bank. To store 200 gallons of water would cost Two Grand! Remember I'm just a poor boy on SS.

[SHTFCO]

Water bricks might help out with the storage issues. A cistern too, with downspouts channeled there. You'll need a hand pump or a bucket & rope.

Water bricks: http://www.amazon.com/Water-Storage-...ick+containers

NOTE: the amazon listing is just for reference; quite often we've done better on the prices going right to the manufacturer's website.

I have 10 of these with plans to buy at least 20 more. If you hold out for sales you can get some great deals on 10 packs of them from Wise Food. I ordered 10 bricks for 150$ Not bad for a weeks worth of water storage.

Gallon a day per person is the rule. So you know how many to stock up on. These bricks are nice cause if you need to get mobile they are still light enough that even a kid could carry one to load them into a car/truck whatever. I also thought about getting a couple 55 gallon drums which I may still do only problem is they wont be portable. But would be a great source of bug in water.

[W.Lynn]

AA, where are you getting your blue 15 gallon barrels or containers, if you don't mind disclosing your source? Barrels up to maybe 20-25 gallons are easily moved compared to 250 gallon or even 55 gallon containers. Are you buying new blue containers or used? Thanks!
Kess

Emergency Essentials has the 15 gallon ones, but shop around or watch for sales. New containers can run a little high, but I like not having to fight old food odors.

Someone was complaining once about their limited options due to being in a small apartment. I suggested getting a couple of the 15-gallon water jugs, build a wood top with whatever odd scraps it would take to set level across the top, add a round tablecloth (or large chunk of bargain fabric when chinamart has some dollar-a-yard stuff that isn't too ugly.) A month of water where you can get to it easily, and two end tables, not too bad.

I might have suggested it here too. I also keep a row of "oil candles" on top of the kitchen cabinets, just far enough out of reach that I'll use other things first.

There's always a way, sometimes you just have to get a different angle on it to solve the issue.

[redman2006]

As far as meds, get to know your vet. You might be suprised what they can help with and how many are thinking ahead because of APHIS type training.

We are not MD s, but if shtf, we might be a slightly better addition to a group than a book.

Just a thought.

[Viper28001]

When I see threads like this, and participate in them, there is usually two things I notice.

First is the obvious stuff that we ALL agree we have to have: beans, bullets, and bandaids pretty much covers it.
Second, is the not-so-obvious that I think most of us forget to plan for..... you have to sleep sometime.

The first thing I recognized when I started planning, both to bug-in, and to bug-out, was that I can't be everywhere all the time. As the only adult male in my home with a wife and kids to care for, someone has to be vigilant. There are some cold hard facts that most of us in my generation have forgotten about how life was BEFORE maytag and frigidaire.

Washing clothes for 4 or 5 People now becomes an all day affair - because you have to do it in shifts, so it piles up. Washing six days of clothes for 4 or 5 people with a bucket, soap powder, and a potato masher is gonna consume a lot time, a lot of calories, and grandma cant' do it. An able-bodied adult has to. That's one that can't be on a gun or on a sentry post.

Cooking will likely be two meals a day, because that's all you'll have time for, because it takes all day to prep from scratch, cook, clean with no dishwasher or running sink water, etc. Maintaining a fire in the woodstove is a never-ending process and you never let it go out during the cold months. By the way, who's going to cut, haul, and split all that firewood that might have to be walked overland to you if you're not lucky enough to live in the woods? The cooking will likely take one adult and any one of the children to assist. That's another two people that have to be defended but that can't man a sentry post.

I've got 9 pistols, 6 shotguns, 7 rifles, and over 50,000 rounds of ammunition... Great, but I've only got two hands and two eyes and they have to close eventually, simply to let me rest so I can do it all again the next day.

Sustaining a small family is tough but doable for a couple adults when the lights are out.

Sustaining a small family when others want what you have because everyone is starving to death and will do whatever it takes, including robbing your home of what you have, is NOT doable for a couple adults of ANY age or ANY level of readiness.

You've heard the phrase "It takes a village."
Well, that's because it does.

I don't want to state unequivocally that "you can't do it" but I feel like it's an accurate assessment. I don't care how well prepared you are, a couple of people are not a significant threat deterrent, nor are they adequate to the task for repelling armed resistance.

The very first thing I started working on two years ago was to get a group of people together. The second thing was to get a bug-out location and move gear and food to it. Currently we are about 10 people. Everyone has no more gear at home than they can fit in a vehicle, or vehicle with a trailer if you have one. Everyone knows overland and backroad routes to the bug-out. The "bug out" isn't a house, or even a "nice" place that can accommodate people. But it IS large in acreage compared to the homes we live in, remote compared to them, has a very good well for fresh water, has a horse barn, and the rest we can make up when needed. We work together to buy supplies and then work on weekends to build the things we need, cut and stack firewood, build the new chicken coop, work on the horse barn, figure out solar for the water pump eventually, build out the container it took us 9 months to afford, bury the container, setup a HAM shack.... the TO DO lists go on for days! If we burn candles for light, no one will be able to see. There's one way in and one way out so it's very hard to sneak up on unless you're familiar with the locale itself. It's isolated. The fuel containers, spare building materials, chicken coops, horses, and other supplies are hidden, intentionally run-down appearing (though they're not at all), and in general you'd never think it's a bug out.

The point is, we have a plan to stay in, and a place to GO if we need to.

If you can't get there yet (and it took me over a year to find someone like-minded that had a place that would work and another year so far to make improvements on it) start with ONE home in your group and make that the bug out. Pick the home that is the most remote or that has the best supply access. Maybe one family's home is much smaller but they have a hand-pump well. Well, unless you have a castle as an option, I'd say THEY WIN the prize for being the bug out location until something better comes up. You can always sleep on the floor, but at least you'd have water to survive, trade with, etc.

You need security more than anything else, especially in the first month following a SHTF scenario. That's the time when people will be both still alive and the most desperate. To secure our 11 acres, I need over 15 more able-bodied people that have guns, ammo, are willing to follow our agreed-upon rules, accept command when the need arises, help each other out, can shoot, and in general have the good moral character I'd trust my family's life with.... and FYI....I'm still looking, and have been constantly for two years. It's NOT easy, but please keep it in mind. You REALLY do need help if that time ever comes and it will be INCREDIBLY easy to find volunteers should the time ever come....if you can feed them too, and clothe them, and chances are you can't, which means you can't take them in because they'll exhaust your supplies. We spend times on forums, meeting, talking to people, and probably dump 100 hours into finding one or two people, and then it takes meeting them to find out they're nutjobs with tinfoil hats or white sheets at home, so you start all over with new people.

Your first and foremost commodity you need is a group! (at least in my humble opinion). It can be family. It can be friends. It can NOT be people who don't take preparations seriously and who only join you because it's a fun hobby. That kind of attitude will starve you all to death when the time comes.

Start looking for skill sets. We have a carpenter, a semi-electrician, a semi-mechanic, a veterinarian, a great gardener. We're learning to care for chickens, raise peeps, gather and save eggs, etc. We're teaching each other horsemanship so we can all ride. We're buying identical radios, keyed to identical frequencies.


The great thing about a group is that YOU don't have to know everything. You can (hopefully) find people who will have skills you don't. I'm still looking, for example, for someone that has a lot of experience with Solar, and with Ham because in the meantime it falls to me to learn these things. That's time I could be spending working on fortifications, or working to earn more money to buy more supplies.

My last thoughts about a group, if you have one, are building one, or thinking of one: an object in motion tends to stay in motion, and more accurately an object at rest stays at rest. Set your group small goals that can be accomplished that EVERYONE can be a part of and keep doing something all the time. Don't let it stagnate. You can sit idle for a month, getting busy with our personal lives, and then lose all the "hop to it" attitude you had last month. With luck it will ONLY take you three or four months to get everyone working again on something. Don't ever let the momentum stop or it's hell to get going!

That's my thoughts on the matter.
Night, all!

[Viper28001]

Seriously?
Fresh Meat?
My forum member status is Fresh Meat? lol
Nice!

[Viper28001]

And I definitely second the Veterinarian comments above. (I married one.)
Here's an example: a common antibiotic amoxycillin, costs $75 for 30 pills for a human. The same drug in the same dosages, costs $10 for a bottle of 500 of them if it's labeled for a horse.....

[DMH]

Good post Viper. I think we all are in agreement about you really can't go it alone for too long. I can vouch for the laundry time as this weekend I had the pleasure of practicing my do it by hand skills. If you don't have a couple of good stiff scrub brushes..get them!

Links for an earlier discussion. http://angeryamerican.net/showthread...ssurance+group

http://angeryamerican.net/showthread.php/3611-Finding-others?highlight=tribes

[cwelch]

anybody have an idea on a safe with an electronic combination lock if it would survive an emp

[myakka]

EMP discussions are always so finite, they say this would survive, that wouldnt. The truth is, the wave is direct wave, line of sight. So if your car is in a parking garage, and there is a huge truck full of metal scraps parked a floor above it, then the car that shouldnt survive might.

So........................ my understanding would be that your safe probably wouldn't, but most of them have a manual backup. Some of the gun cases I looked at had the electronic lock, but if you pull the lock off, there is a place for a key behind it as a backup way in. Dont know if that is true for all safes............

[unseenone]

And I definitely second the Veterinarian comments above. (I married one.)
Here's an example: a common antibiotic amoxycillin, costs $75 for 30 pills for a human. The same drug in the same dosages, costs $10 for a bottle of 500 of them if it's labeled for a horse.....

Let's talk AntiVenin can it be obtained in powder form with a long shelf life?

Maybe your better half would be willing to create an Ask the Vet section or some medical related topic here. Great stuff.

According to the safe folks AA and I have talked to, they believe they would be unaffected by an EMP. You can get some of the better grade ones with both, or a manual lock.