Contest Time II

[angeryamerican]

It's that time again. This time will be a little different though. The prize for this contest is a signed copy of MAGS by Charlie Hogwood. As the title suggests about forming a group and it a pretty good read with a lot of ideas.

To enter this time let's hear your opinion in the subject, are you part of a group, planning one, think you can go it alone? We've heard Tex talk about tribalism, let's hear what you guys have to say about it. A qualifying post is one that discusses the topic, count me in won't cut it this time around. Keep your security in mind, don't post anything you feel is sensitive to your position.

Sorry about the delay guys, AA sorta jumped the gun. This is something we have been planning for a little while and he asked me to come in and put my spin on this just a little.

On the off chance that folks don't know what a MAG is, it stands for, Mutual Assistance Group. This means, if the poop hits the fan, you have a group of family, friends or like minded individuals who will band with you to help each other make it through the crisis. One thing I am always talking about is, Tribes. This is a little bit different than a MAG, but there are times when the two are synonymous.

With a MAG, people agree to come together in a major crisis or SHTF situation and help each other through the turmoil. People will usually have set roles that they are responsible for, but alot of times they have trained in other areas to help out if needed. There can be as many different types and kinds of MAGs as there are people who want to develop one. People in cities will have different needs than people in a rural setting and people in the desert will face different challenges than folks in the midwest. The whole purpose though, is to survive whatever calamity you may be facing.

Before and after a serious situation, people in MAGs may very likely go on about there business and have little contact with others in their group, although some do spend time training for different life altering events. A little different than a MAG is what some refer to as a Tribe. This usually consists of people you see and work with, help out or trade with on a regular basis. The people in a Tribe or a MAG can be the same folks, but the ones in the Tribe are often times a little more involved in each others daily lives.

Tribes come in handy when folks are homesteading and doing the self sufficiency thing as best they can. Nobody can be completely self sufficient, so many times people on different homesteads will agree to work together with one place producing a certain set of things while another will produce something else and then they share or trade to make sure everyone has some of everything produced. It helps those who are raising meat to get fresh vegetables and then the gardeners can be assured of having meat. I over simplified things, but you get my meaning.

What we would like to see are other people's point of view or opinions. This isn't a simple, "Count Me In" contest. This will take some thought and a tad bit of effort on your part. Tell us what you think about MAGS or Tribes and why you feel they are important. If you think there is an aspect on this subject that is overlooked, or could be better utilized, tell us why. Give us a reason to pick your post. Contrary to what was said earlier, this will not be a random drawing to find a winner. You can do that in a benevolent dictatorship. Content and substance counts. You have all read the "Going Home" books, so you have some idea about MAGs or Tribes. We are trying to get the new folks to start posting and saying something, so here is your reason to jump in.

There are no right or wrong answers, but please don't ask anyone to "count you in". Throw something out there that will get folks to thinking about the importance of this subject.


Tex

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[gsouth13]

The groups are the way to go and I will try to continue to improve on ours, especially in the medical field as much as possible. Charley's book is pretty much required reading, much like How To Survive The End Of The World As We Know It by Rawles, and thanks a lot for those. They are getting properly distributed to some people that really needed them. That reminds me, I'm thinking of writing a book myself now, but more along the lines of education on survival/self reliant topics to be taught as 1-2 hour classes. I need a good illustrator though.

I got my MAGS book autographed by Charley already when he gave you the one for this contest I suspect, so I will root for someone else in need of this book, which should be anyone. It covers so much that preparedness minded people rarely consider when contemplating grouping up in a time of need. If nothing else, this is a fantastic book on leadership skills. I hope to see more people come around to becoming more self reliant, since that will help us all in the long run. Everyone keep spreading the word and ideas.

Gary

[rvfd42]

Right now close family, but talk to a few close friends that are prepared.

[Eva Morales]

.:. I'm now living in an area that would require a MAG so this book would be perfect.

[Adam R]

Going alone isn't that smart... It's possible ONLY IF absotutely necessary! Proper security would be impossibly alone. Small groups are definitely the way to go! If I had a choice I'd say at least a 6 person group. That way 3 8hour shift work for security is totally possible, scouting parties of 2-3 are available and gathering/growing that much food and water is totally within the realm of possibility. That's jus a few points...

[Tex]

We are now back up and running with this contest.

OPEN TO EVERYONE !!!!


Tex

[W.Lynn]

Groups (family, clan, community, etc) are the basis of human existence. A lone wolf has a harder time being prosperous enough to provide well for himself, let alone mate and offspring.

A multigenerational family group is only the beginning, it provides younglings with a wider group of adults that have an interest in helping children survive and be competent. The adults will need help as they get older, and people who know them will, hopefully, appreciate their wisdom and experience. Now we have more effectives (cousins, parents, aunts, uncles, etc,) and more elderly to reduce the workload (child care, food prep, light tasks.)

But this is still only a beginning, additional persons are needed over time, attrition will lead to losses. Between attacks, illness, inbreeding, and probably a few just leaving to pursue life elsewhere.

So we need more people, and more people need a group. There will be some effort to be a person that will be useful, there will also be people who have little to offer but willingness. Sadly, there will also be a wide variety of rats, weasels, thieves, killers, etc. So you need to have an idea of some specific people you trust and will have in, and the ones who will be told that all spaces are taken, even as you have your ear to the ground, hoping to find the nearest ER nurse, Navy Corpsman, etc.

We all know the useless guy we wouldn't trust with a weapon, would use resources for 3, be a security risk, and want to bring all his useless friends.

Bottom line, know who's welcome, and who's not, and some maybe ones. Make sure that certain people know that you will be there for them, no matter what. And while you may need to maintain friendly behavior at work, or socially, you can save time and not invest too much of yourself in the ones that you wouldn't want in your home anyway.

All the while prepping for your family as best you can, and keeping aware of who might be helped if you mention a news article, or talk about hunting. You also want to be aware who might be trying to worm in a little closer or find out things about you.

And besides, with any luck, the worst we might face (or in some cases, have,) may be a flood, storm, or home birth with a midwife that is late because she insists that babies never come at 3am. (Hello, meet John.)

To top it off, you get to do this while living in a mostly non-crisis world, making the kids keep their grades up, and maintaining your Jedi mind tricks so you can convince people that "there's nothing to see here, move along."

(And consider me entered, I like books.)

[DMH]

I believe you need a "tribe" . More people for security, food growing/storage, medical, hunting, building, the list gets long. One or two people can only do so much, and if one gets hurt and laid up, it could get bad. I also think you need trading partners for items that others have mastered, freeing your people up to do what they can do best.

I have a like minded friend, we cover each other's backs now and have talked about the SHTF scenario, and what we would do and where we would go.

[VINCENT]

Count me on! I want to win this. Looks like a great book.

[W.Lynn]

Vincent, this isn't a "count me in" entry, it's a "fire up your brain cells and post something on topic" entry.

[Frank]

I've thought about this off and on and am not sure if there are any good answers. The one thing that seems fairly consistent in prepper fiction is the president of the HOA is the bad guy and things always break down in your own neighborhood. I agree with that assessment and working out solutions is difficult. Someone's always going to dream of being the man/Woman of "Rule city". First off similarities in cultural, religious and racial makeup may not be politically correct (or right for Morgan) but the closer one gets to similar outlooks the less obvious and simple stressors are to divide your group. I guarantee you that in times of great chaos something as simple as Catholic versus Presbyterian can cause a great deal of friction... and friction is always the enemy. Single men/women in a large group of married people is also going to end up causing a great deal of fiction. And don't see this through the lens of where the stick strikes. Look at the other end of the stick, cuz no one's going to admit to hating someone for their own childish/selfish reasons. Too much conflict isn't direct, people use surrogates and subtle lies against perceived enemies. It's entirely possible for friction to develop with the root cause not being apparent to most of those concerned. As an example (and this is out of real life) if one woman lost a boyfriend to another woman in high school, the other woman and the ex boyfriend will constantly find themselves in the sights of the jilted woman, her friends, and anyone she can manipulate into doing her bidding. Her current marital status won't make much difference, she's not over it and it has nothing to do with her wanting the ex back. Obviously it's very hard to find a group without some history, but that's exactly what I'm advocating. Old friends, or enemies, can fracture the group dynamic in short order. Consistency and equality under objectively enforced law is critical.

No one can go it alone but it's important to not think that a BIG group is safer than a smaller group. A bigger group is easier to strategically split. It's a two way street that is rarely considered by the good guys in Prepper fiction, but it's a totally legitimate tactic and one that we can use to possibly prevent us from ending up in the crosshairs of a very cohesive group that's larger than us. Always look at the other end of the stick. None of this is easy, I'm just throwing this out their as an exercise in thinking things through.

In order to increase group cohesion it's important to have very few rules but the ones we do have must be unbreakable. Simple and flexible will help you defeat (and perhaps prevent a shooting war) by allowing the unburdened and cohesive group to move quickly. Too many rules reduces the decision cycle significantly. When decisions have to be made to begin arguing about rules means we're probably already lost. OK, that's my quick take. Even if I don't win anything criticism and further discussion would be helpful. I've been thinking about it, but this is the first time I've laid it out in text.

[Biscuits and Gravy]

I know I need to build more community. My family is not relatively close and I am realizing in an emergency, my wife's family (who lives close) will be all but useless.

[angeryamerican]

Awesome post Frank, thanks for jumping in. I agree, in our current society division is the word of the day and contrary to the PC police, things will probably go down along several different lines, race, religion, political association, hell north and south could do it. I also agree with the thought about a larger group but you have to factor in the carrying capacity of the place you are, resources will dictate how big a group can become.

[Frank]

you have to factor in the carrying capacity of the place you are, resources will dictate how big a group can become.

I wonder about the limits of a large group to feed? In order to hold it together you can't have the group missing meals... and death always creates dissension. That's one of the things about a smaller group, you can be big enough to put up a credible defense while not sucking all the resources out of an area. These are just thoughts, I have no legitimate useful experience one way or the other. I've just noticed that large group dynamics always end up muddling goals.

[AmericanBTGoG]

We have MAGs in everyday life, even if we don't call them that. Like peeling an onion, there are layers of cooperation and trust entailed.

At the more superficial, arranging with a neighbor to get your child from the school bus, if you are late or unable to do so, is mutual assistance. It seems simple, but there is a large degree of trust involved, especially if you are referencing your child's welfare. I would think trust is less of an issue when asking a neighbor to feed your dog, but that is mutual assistance, too. But even the most superficial arrangement requires a "trust assessment."

Borrowing/loaning a small amount of money (the issue of borrowing, at all, aside), having a temporary place to shelter when there is an impending hurricane, borrowing/loaning a larger amount of money, having a safe-house or way-station, leaving your family in someone else's possibly longer-term care, letting someone else know your caches, living together in TEOTWAWKI, fighting together in SHTF, all require different "trust assessments." Some assessments (feeding the dog) might be made rather rapidly or easily; others will necessarily require more time, more thought, more interaction. Some require relatively little consideration of PERSEC or OPSEC; others could prove a matter of life or death for you, your family, your tribe.

As I grow older ('though not necessarily wiser) I become much more leery of large-scale MAGs. If there is a real SHTF event, security issues and the real possibility of a dictatorial clique are two issues that are especially troubling. So is the sustainability/contribution issue, but since I'm neither Jim Bridger, Carlos Hathcock, McGyver nor Farmer John, I tend to suppress that issue in my mind.

I believe that, on a daily basis, we can develop some MAGs with relatively little, primarily intuitive, thought. But for the "bigger" things, I'd like to think that I've analyzed what's what, and taken some steps to evaluate whether other people are likely to roll on me, steal from me, get dictatorial, slack, have ways that are in extreme conflict with mine, or just in general piss me the fuck off. I'm divorced, so I know the importance of these issues.

It takes work; I think its worth it.