Starting Over - Designing the Future

[Sacajawea]

So: we've all talked through all the "disaster scenarios"... and have lists, and inventories, and books full of information for surviving "the big event" - whatever it turns out to be.

But what about rebuilding after? How do we redesign our world, our society, our government... our tribes? How do we reboot commerce? Under what terms?

There are any number of ways of approaching the problems and they're all probably relevant. My background is in "what works" - function for the most people, most of the time. Simple, is always better, and is a design "rule" itself. Simple systems are stronger, yet more flexible. Like etiquette - used to be a lot of topics were nobody's business and you were considered nosy for asking. There were set customs for greetings, public discourse. It was nobody else's business what went on past your front door. Communities used to police their member's behavior, and disapproval of the community for your actions could mean not having many friends to moving on, looking for a better fit in a community, before the sheriff caught up with you.

It was said of Early Americans, that the virtue in our government began with the virtue in the family, then the church, and then the community. From the community to the state... and so, the Federal Government. There really isn't anything non-functional in that system, but somehow it was vulnerable to some... virus... or illness. So, what I'm wondering is -- IF we could rebuild that system, how could we improve it? Safeguard it from another "illness"? Or is that even possible given a societal respect for free will? Because that IS an essential part of a free society - letting people assume the consequences of their decisions to not abide by the community's rules. Within reason. Where that line is drawn seems pretty important, given the times we live in now.

Would this be a good project to discuss and work on?

[DMH]

Yes it would be a great project to work on and discuss.

I believe it has has to begin in the family, which will affect the culture. The culture is what forms the political system which by the time it gets political its too late. With all the technological and scientific advancements that threatens morals, how do you insulate yourself and your family? What is acceptable behavior now, was not 30 years ago. How do you live in a modern world with old world values? How do you affect culture? Can we restore it? Do we want to restore it the same? I don't believe anything is completely "disease" proof. Anything good takes tending and care. Freedom does come with a price, that most of us are willing to pay.
As Benjamin Franklin said..
"Madam a Republic if you can keep it"

Great thought provoking topic Sacajawea!

[roach2654]

In a rebuilding , Maybe the old saying "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" might be as good a place as any to start.

[Sacajawea]

In a rebuilding , Maybe the old saying "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" might be as good a place as any to start.

Yes, this seems to be a great foundation to start from.

Anyone know much about Switzerland's government system? There are elements that appeal to me: requiring everyone to serve in the self-defense force, keep a weapon at home, etc.

[MillenniumMan]

There's an old saying I just came up with 30 seconds ago:

"Caches aren't just for food and guns."

There's enough room in a 40 foot ISO container for building materials to build two houses, and the box itself can be used as a third or as a C&C building/church/city hall/ect. But then, you could also just take all the left over crap and build new crap out of that.

Then there's libraries of useful info, equipment for telecom, ect.

I just finished readin Volume 2 of Out of Gas called The Farm by Randy Dyess that lays this out step by step.

[Tex]

I honestly believe that if we were to have a catastrophic reset, alot of our problems and dilemmas around rebuilding correctly will be self solving. We had long stretch during the growth of this country where people did mind their own business, children were well behaved and we didn't have the societal ills that we have today. Of course back then, people were too busy trying to put food on their own tables and keep themselves and their family alive. When people started moving off of the farm and they started paying for convenience, it became easier and more common to start minding other people's business. Today, in this country people have entirely too much time and not enough to do and they start creating problems where none used to exist. I read one time that the average activist is a college educated housewife. People today have the brainpower to solve problems and when they can't find problems, they create them.

If something catastrophic were to happen, people would revert back to acting the way they used to. We would not be nearly as worried about those things that were not our business because we would have too much to worry about without taking on the problems of others. The doers in our society would, whether they be a blacksmith, farmer or whatever, would start our commerce off again. Buying, selling, bartering and trading would get the ball rolling again. Eventhough we may be starting completely over again, I don't think it would take us as long to make new discoveries and excel. It would be up to us as a society though to make sure that we didn't make the same mistakes again. If that were to happen though, I would like to see us re-adopt the requirement of being a landowner in order to vote. Maybe not as exact as that, but definitely limit voting to the contributors. That is one point in our history that was a definite mistake.


Tex

[tk]

I agree Tex. People today have to much time on their hands and no ambition to do things anyways. Its just why welfare don't work. I have said before living here by the old order Amish ( very strict) they have no trouble with their youth because they have no time to get in trouble. I no these shows on TV that are mostly crap don't depict this but come here and you'll see different. They are up doing their chores 2 hrs before they go to work and then work till dark . They eat and go to bed. No electricity makes them go to bed not staying up to watch TV . The women have close on the line (Rain Or Snow) before I head out at 6:30 so who knows what time they got up to wash them and cook breakfast. Some around here don't like them . But I have all the respect in the world for them. Any person that has to work that hard to provide for their family ( Around here 8 to 10 kids is the norm) and stay happy is doing something right. Shit hits the fan around here very little would change in their lives. Until us English come and try to take what they have.

This is why groups , tribes , towns would have to be organized enough to have a police militia what ever. Every person with a trade will be a contributing factor alone . But all will need to protect themselves and have good people to watch their back. Some of the scum will survive by stealing and killing to get by.

Barter and trade will be the norm. Paper money will be TP. So trading your skills and labor may keep you and your family fed. That's why I think its so important to learn as much trade skills as possible in life . I figure in that situation people with computer skills, financing degrees and banking will be in low demand and high numbers. Us ditch diggers and nail benders and hunters will move to the top of the list.
TFK

[Tex]

Yep, the hairy chested neanderthals will come back in style and the hair gel wearing metrosexuals who sit at a desk all day will be giving blow....... Well, lets just say they won't be in high demand and their fashion sense won't carry them very far.

If it ever does come to pass, people will revert back to the roles that God intended them for. Men will be men and women will be women. These gender bending pansy ass boys and the flannel wearing dykes will be a thing of the past.


Tex

[AD]

You mean UN and his hair gel will be out of style? No say it aint so............

[MillenniumMan]

To touch on what Tex said, there's a reason why porn from the 70s and 80s did so well.

Ron "the hedgehog" Jeremy. I don't mean as he is now falling apart. I mean real natural state men and women going at it.

AD, stay away from my LEG!!!!

[Tex]

I really do believe that if we were to experience a major reset that caused people to revert back 100 years, most of our problems would workthemselves out very quickly. People do not have enough to worry about these days like folks did in my parents generation. Dad would have been 89 this year and Momma will soon be 80. Both were born in Oklahoma and went through the Dustbowl. Momma was born pretty much right in the middle of where the Dustbowl wreaked the most havoc.

She has told me how people didn't worry too much about what others were doing because they had plenty of their own problems to worry about. Keeping their kids alive and having enough to eat were some very real worries for almost everyone and as long as someone else's actions didn't interfere with that, people had little concern for what their neighbors did. People today have it unquestionably easier than those who came before us and we don't have nearly the amount of worries previous generations had.

Tex

[roach2654]

tfk down in south eastern PA the town of Intercourse was so named because at one time it was a crossroad where people came to trade and barter for goods. My folks lived in Coatesville for many years and i would love to go visit so I could drive through the beautifull farms the Amish have. Good bunch of people!

[Patriotmuso]

Honestly, it's the only way our republic can ever get back to a state of normalcy. We spend waaaay too much time worrying about trivial bull, as some have stated. A big thing we the people could actually try and ensure is this BS 2 party political system suffers a quick death. THAT is most likely the biggest problem in politics. The lesser of 2 evils is getting old. Of course, one would have to ponder if it did hit the fan, and we had to rebuild, who's to say it wouldn't be EXACTLY the same as it is now? We as humans have grown far too accustomed to having everything at our fingertips. As for redesigning government? No need for it. Cast a vote for anything important that will affect the whole. Anyone with half a brain votes on it, if you don't vote, STFU when it doesn't go your way.

Everyone needs to be responsible for their own family instead of living off others ie welfare. No more living on the dole. If you don't want to work, starve. You are responsible for yourself and your family. I have no qualms helping others that truly need it, but if there is nothing wrong with you and you just plain don't want to work, you get what you put in. Another thing that needs to come back, and I'm sure some will not want to hear it, but God needs to be part of everyday life. All the crap we have going on, IMO, is a direct result of God being taken out of everything. This country was founded on the belief in God, and until recently was in MANY activities of everyday life. That needs to come back. Just my 2 cents worth on it, take it with a grain of salt as I'm certainly no expert....

[Sacajawea]

Tex, I think that's the main point here: when everyone is concentrating on surviving, getting enough to eat and buying next year's shoes... there isn't alot of time to worry about what other people believe, how they live, etc... so, yes: a lot of that BS will simply go away.

But it's essential to survival, to "declutter" government and get rid of regulations, laws, and whole departments that only make life more difficult and get in the way of people being able to "do" for themselves. The Federal Gov't was limited for a reason and held accountable to the states, for a reason. It was an essential balance of and separation of scope of powers. For instance: public education seemed to work pretty well when it was the responsibility of the states and localities. Throwing money at education doesn't make kids want to learn any more... or teachers able to "teach" any better. I question the whole educational premise that makes the student completely passive and expects the teacher to be able to telepathically implant knowledge or smarts into kids. It's just flat-out a STUPID idea. [ETA: "one size fits all" ONLY works for pantyhose and only within some limitations; the Federal Gov still hasn't learned this.]

Another thing that's important, but I'm not sure I can put it into words; commonly held "reality" and "values".

There's been a whole lot of false "choices", the appearance-illusion of individual freedom, and laboratory-tested value-systems foisted on traditional culture. Snake Oil salesmen have sold some fantasy of "post-modern life"... and the PRoPPressive nanny-state has had to invent a whole bunch of new regulations, laws, and even definitions of words - definitions that do NOT exist in the Oxford dictionary - to try to sell their version of reality to the rest of us. But it's a combination of a house of horrors, Alice in Wonderland and the Wizard of Oz instead... NONE of it being "real".

Castenada put forth the idea that our whole concept of reality is one that the majority of people agree upon. We look at the sky and agree it's blue; a table is table... because it has 4 legs that support a plane that is solid. It's not a chair, because it doesn't have a back. It's not a stool, because it's bigger. But we can still sit on it; the function doesn't change the essential nature of the thing.

But the PRoPPressive movement has been selling - and people have been buying - the snake-oil fantasy "all things are possible", that human nature can evolve into something utopian (even the Dalai Lama admits to his own ego-interests), and that life is better through chemistry. (Well, ok... except for industrial pollution... ... they don't see the ironic conflict in their own movement.)

That is going to leave a whole lot of people standing around with their thumb in their mouths waiting for someone to tell them what to do, how to do it, and whether or not they did it "right" - post "IT". They are going to experience such a significant cognitive dissonance shift in what reality is - most of them will go into shock. Which will make large numbers of them - roadkill.

There was a silly tradition in all-employee meetings at the start of every new school year. Someone would read the list of things that this fall's freshmen had never experienced, didn't know about, never heard of. It was supposed to be FUNNY. I sure hope I wasn't the only one not laughing. Going back 10+ years, I'd guess there are at least 3-4 generations that have only had minimal exposure to the central ideas of traditional culture; even less education in "classical" subjects; and only the snake-oil version of American History & Government. Many of them never even heard of: "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"... they only heard that those kinds of ideas are dangerous and very, very, very BAD. Without any sound reason why... but one is not to question that, that would be very, very bad. So the amount of individual freedom of choice; individual liberty -- is actually reduced and limited, through the artificial APPEARANCE of choice in the snake-oil fantasy reality.

Collecting, preserving, and explaining those traditional cultural touchstones at the individual level - is where I think I have to start. Mogli's been trying to teach, as best she can. She found out that sometimes, it's a thankless job - but someone's gotta do it! I got pretty burned out trying to do the same, before I met her. Had to take a long time out.

But, it's what I do - when I'm not planting, organizing, managing, designing or problem-solving.

[W.Lynn]

"One size fits all" doesn't work for pantyhose either.

The people with their thumbs in their mouths will probably explode after not being able to find a working toilet.