Cry Havoc is finally here!

[W.Lynn]

Why do I get the feeling you just ruined one of the books for me... I'm only on book 5 I think.

He got to a nice length on one and left a cliff-hanger. Nothing too unusual, shouldn't ruin it for you.

[J Ram]

Yep, add another hit to your list AA......

Great different perspective from the aspect that you're looking at a major urban environment vs the burbs. I also like that the crisis is different from Going Home Series, Hope, and Charlie's req.

My only thought/wish, and maybe you can revisit in a follow-on to this, is what would several months look like in the city for a group or two that are not tied into the system (like the officers/agents in Charlie's req) could not escape the city (or chose not to leave)? Maybe a group of city preppers that are stuck because they have no place to go or cannot get by Gov't blockades and a group of Militia that chose to stay behind and fight.

But again, excellent job sir...I was once again thoroughly entertained.....and educated.

[WhiteBear620]

Yep, add another hit to your list AA......

Great different perspective from the aspect that you're looking at a major urban environment vs the burbs. I also like that the crisis is different from Going Home Series, Hope, and Charlie's req.

My only thought/wish, and maybe you can revisit in a follow-on to this, is what would several months look like in the city for a group or two that are not tied into the system (like the officers/agents in Charlie's req) could not escape the city (or chose not to leave)? Maybe a group of city preppers that are stuck because they have no place to go or cannot get by Gov't blockades and a group of Militia that chose to stay behind and fight.

But again, excellent job sir...I was once again thoroughly entertained.....and educated.

I too would like to see this. But I imagine if it was a realistic story it would be a very tragic one lots of characters dyeing from firefights and other hazards.... But then again it worked for that one guy, I think he was in Serbia during the time his city was basically the exact situation you described.

[J Ram]

I too would like to see this. But I imagine if it was a realistic story it would be a very tragic one lots of characters dyeing from firefights and other hazards.... But then again it worked for that one guy, I think he was in Serbia during the time his city was basically the exact situation you described.

I agree, I definitely think there would be some dark aspects much along the lines of AA's book Hope and lots of death/dying....probably a couple of relocations from bldg A to bldg B and then maybe to bldg C as they are forced to move due to discoveries.......how would the militia fare conducting guerilla urban warfare? Maybe....just maybe...they find a way to survive (e.g. cooperating with other like minded/skilled individuals they lock down a city block and protect it from not only the hordes but the DHS goons as well....(becomes too deadly to enter without major loses which they don't want to expend so they abandon it until some far off future date) maybe they get some help from the militia.... But I think it would be one of those reads you just can't put down.

[KyDave59]

I have to wonder how many militias, though, would be located in urban areas? I'll freely admit that I'm not a militia expert. But, most of the ones around here seem to be located, primarily, in rather rural areas. That's not to say that they don't have members in the urban areas. But, most of them seem to have their meetings/shoots/commands/etc., outside of the urban areas.

I had considered joining one of the local militias a couple of years back, but I'm really outside the age range that most of them want. They, for the most part, want people in the 18-45 year old range, and, at 57, I'm well outside of that range. Plus, with my health issues (diabetes, detached retinas, etc.), I'm not sure how well I'd be able to do field deployments. But, having said that, I did function as a training officer for one of the local ones, and wrote up a couple of dozen training articles for them, mainly on how not to get oneself killed while out in the field, mostly by doing something Real Dumb.

Dave

[Boston_Joe]

Dave,

Would you post those articles here? I would love to read them.

[KyDave59]

I'll see if I can find them. It's been a couple of years ago. If I can find them, I'll post them.

Dave

P.S. Or, I could always write fresh ones. :-)

[WhiteBear620]

I agree, I definitely think there would be some dark aspects much along the lines of AA's book Hope and lots of death/dying....probably a couple of relocations from bldg A to bldg B and then maybe to bldg C as they are forced to move due to discoveries.......how would the militia fare conducting guerilla urban warfare? Maybe....just maybe...they find a way to survive (e.g. cooperating with other like minded/skilled individuals they lock down a city block and protect it from not only the hordes but the DHS goons as well....(becomes too deadly to enter without major loses which they don't want to expend so they abandon it until some far off future date) maybe they get some help from the militia.... But I think it would be one of those reads you just can't put down.

I've read some writing on how military minds think about fighting in urban terrain, generally, it's very costly with a benefit sometimes going more towards the defender. If anyone else is a fan of Max Velocity, he sort of goes into this in one of the battles in Patriot Dawn: defenders can have huge advantages if they aren't above losing the buildings they're defending as they engage attackers while advancing rearward through "rat lines" (paths literally smashed through the structures that allow the defenders to move without being in the open), the attacker gains a big advantage if the defender insists on holding the structures as they can literally burn them out.
I wouldn't really rely on most "militias" because what I've seen is a lack of fitness and realistic training among them, not the guys I would want to have to rely on, especially if I don't already have a relationship with them pre-SHTF; there are obviously exceptions with there being some actually good militias out there. Also, as most "militias" training and gear is geared towards rural, I'm not sure how well they'd actually fair when facing an urban environment.
With the hypothetical tyrannical government goons, most of the room clearing techniques currently practiced among professional units doesn't work so well against people who are armed and ready. Try doing a stack up when the guys on the other side of the wall suddenly dump a whole mag through that wall before you breach the door. Or you clear the house, but the enemy decides to just leave out the back/through a window and waits for you to enter the structure (obviously this is if the goons don't have a perimeter around the structure); if you ask the Israeli's or the Germans how they clear structure they know contain hostile people with no one they wish to save on the inside, they'll just blow the damn building up and wait for people to come crawling out. AA sort of does this very thing in book 8

[KyDave59]

One of the local militias declares itself to be a "recon" outfit. The one I was writing training articles for was also more oriented towards recon.

We face a bit of a strange situation in Kentucky, due to some shenanigans of a previous militia, the Kentucky State Militia, which ended up being commanded by a convicted felon, who ended up getting in trouble with the law again, and fleeing prosecution. He still hasn't been apprehended, over a decade later, and I don't know that anyone has even heard from him (There's been some speculation that he's dead, but I've made it very clear that I don't want to know!).

http://archive.adl.org/learn/news/militia_puckett_fugitive.html

As a result, the militia movement was fractured, and I don't know that a unified militia has ever been recreated in Kentucky. Plus, with Kentucky's geography, what with being long and relatively thin, organizing a state-wide organization is difficult, due to travel. As a result, several small militias have been formed, but most of them are too small to be effective, at least for anything other than reconnaissance. Plus, due to the bad taste left in people's mouths via the anti-government policies of the defunct KSM, most of the more recently organized militias have concentrated on working with the local government. The few I'm familiar with now are all small groups, designed with the idea of being the eyes and ears to gather and feed information into the government, where it can be acted upon by the regular army, national guard, or police forces.

On the other hand, you have national militia organizations, such as the Oath Keepers. They purport to consist of former military and law enforcement officers. However, they're been involved in some prominent conflicts which call their goals into question, such as the Bundy Ranch Standoff, the Malheur Wildlife Refuge Standoff, the Ferguson, Missouri Riots, and even the Kim Davis situation. There have also been some rumors of a fractured command structure.

Of course, that doesn't mean that you don't still have quite a few anti-government people running around out there. But, the local groups I'm familiar with have been rather careful to screen the members to keep those extremists out, and have, for the most part, attempted to work with the government, rather than against it.

There's also a bit of a tendency to think of militias as "rednecks with guns". Unfortunately, that can be the case, if the group isn't administered correctly. And, a lot of those guys will be out of shape, along with having little idea of what's involved in an actual field deployment, so much so that they have more to fear of getting themselves killed by doing something Real Dumb than they do from enemy action (whoever the enemy may turn out to be). That was the subject of most of the training articles I had been writing; how not to get yourself killed by your own stupid actions.

Along those lines, I've grown up on a farm, and have over five decades of experience in the woods and wilderness, along with 8.5 years on a local governmental emergency response team, although I'll certainly admit that I don't know everything. However, I wrote about my experiences, and how I have come to grips with some bad situations, in the hopes that it would help keep people out of similar situations, or, at least, make them better prepared. One thing that I repeatedly pushed was to get out into the field and train. Then, sit down and review what you did correctly and, more importantly, what you did incorrectly, after the exercise is over. Another point I repeatedly made was to not point fingers, nor assign blame. When failures occurred, it was a system failure.

As for urban warfare, I don't know that that's anyone's idea of fun. The prototypical example is the defense of Stalingrad during World War II. The Germans poured a rather incredible number of men and machines into that attack, and were gradually worn down (The weather didn't help them any.). I've heard various numbers with regards to the ratio of attacking to defending forces, for a successful attack, but it's usually around an order of magnitude or greater (e.g., 10:1 or more). And, that makes taking an urban area incredibly expensive.

Of course, the other example is the way the Soviets took Berlin, by basically creating a rolling artillery barrage, which reduced the vast majority of the city to rubble. But, they weren't intent on capturing the city for their own use, and they did not have any intentions of preserving the lives of the German civilians who were still there. Their intent was to simply smash Berlin into oblivion.

Oh, yeah, one of the subjects I pushed was to study. Study previous military engagements. Study asymmetrical warfare. Study communications. Study operational security. Study cartography. Study surveillance. Study communications methods. What happens when your cell phone goes dead? How do you communicate with your team, or to summon aid? Study adverse weather survival skills. When the electricity goes out in winter, how do you stay warm? Study transportation. When the HEMP hits, and wipes out 99 percent of the vehicles, how to you cover terrain? Study food preservation and supplies. Study first aid and medical treatment. Study search and rescue, so you can rescue one of your members who has become lost, or a member of the community, perhaps even a child (I've been on a couple of those searches.). Study illumination so that you can function in the dark.

Then, get out and practice what you've studied. Everyone likes to think that they can do a 10 mile hike with a full pack. But, when you actually hit the field, going across country, in the heat of August, or the cold of January, you'll quickly find that most people will be doing good to cover a quarter of a mile before they have to sit down and rest. But, you won't know what you're capable of until you actually try it. So, get out there and try it, after having studied.

Dave

[IronWarriors3/354]

So has there been any talk of a Book #2?

[kickstand]

I haven't heard about a Cry Havoc 2 (but that doesn't mean one isn't planned), but are you aware of the Charlie's Requiem stories that AA wrote with Walt Browning?

[IronWarriors3/354]

I haven't heard about a Cry Havoc 2 (but that doesn't mean one isn't planned), but are you aware of the Charlie's Requiem stories that AA wrote with Walt Browning?

Yes I am I know I read the first one didn't know there were others. I will look for them for sure. I have pretty much read everything AA has put out.