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gunslinger3
05-13-2015, 04:53 PM
Hope this hasn't been asked before. I am halfway through Resurrecting Home and can't for the life of me remember what caused the loss of power. Was it every told and any of the series?

AD
05-13-2015, 05:36 PM
A CME(Coronal Mass Ejection)...... Or so everyone thinks :censored:

Book 1

W.Lynn
05-13-2015, 05:59 PM
You find out when, or if, the character does. It's frustrating, but more realistic that way.

MillenniumMan
05-15-2015, 01:32 PM
Obama found the light switch behind the painting of Clinton marked "Country" and decided "Eh, what the hell?"

AD
05-15-2015, 02:05 PM
Obama found the light switch behind the painting of Clinton marked "Country" and decided "Eh, what the hell?"

Good to have you back.......WTF am I saying????

MillenniumMan
05-15-2015, 07:58 PM
Good to have you back.......WTF am I saying????

:finger:

Hobes
04-28-2016, 08:43 PM
from what I recall, it was a theoretical CME, but an EMP was more likely. much talk about the CME, therefore easier to throw an EMP to mess the country up.

Murphy
12-30-2017, 03:49 PM
I read all the books twice.

It was caused by a CME that was then used as cover for an EMP.

A CME wouldn't cause problems with small electronics like cell phones or radios, but an EMP sure would. In the books, I think they mentioned that the news media were talking about a CME all week and when it hit, someone launched a nuclear weapon to create an EMP on top of it.

I've been reading EMP books for the past two months so its possible I have mixed up one plot with another, but I think I'm right.. it was in the Going Home series, maybe book two or three?

Murphy
01-01-2018, 11:23 AM
If I recall, it was an Nuclear EMP and a CME.
Didn't they say the news media had been talking about the sun for a week or so before hand? And then, when the CME hit, someone launched an nuclear bomb above the atmosphere to finish us off.

Well, in any case, there must have been a nuclear detonation in there somewhere because a CME won't damage small electronics or cars that aren't physically connected to the grid.

A CME is the E3 part of the pulse and its very slow and can last for many minutes. Because of the way a CME interacts with our magnetic field, the EMP is only about 1 volt per meter of conductive surface. For things plugged into the grid, this is huge because that 1 volt per meter adds up on the transmission lines fast.

A nuclear EMP is the E1 part of the pulse. Its very fast and lasts for only a nanosecond, but it induces up to 50,000 volts per meter. This high voltage is what kills laptops and cell phones even though they aren't connected to the grid. This is the pulse that stops cars.

If an E3 (CME) hit us and you were driving down the road, the only thing you might notice is that your radio might get some static... that's about it

WhiteBear620
01-01-2018, 04:15 PM
If I recall, it was an Nuclear EMP and a CME.
Didn't they say the news media had been talking about the sun for a week or so before hand? And then, when the CME hit, someone launched an nuclear bomb above the atmosphere to finish us off.

Well, in any case, there must have been a nuclear detonation in there somewhere because a CME won't damage small electronics or cars that aren't physically connected to the grid.

A CME is the E3 part of the pulse and its very slow and can last for many minutes. Because of the way a CME interacts with our magnetic field, the EMP is only about 1 volt per meter of conductive surface. For things plugged into the grid, this is huge because that 1 volt per meter adds up on the transmission lines fast.

A nuclear EMP is the E1 part of the pulse. Its very fast and lasts for only a nanosecond, but it induces up to 50,000 volts per meter. This high voltage is what kills laptops and cell phones even though they aren't connected to the grid. This is the pulse that stops cars.

If an E3 (CME) hit us and you were driving down the road, the only thing you might notice is that your radio might get some static... that's about it

It's very interesting, the differences between a CME and EMP weapons.
Granted, I know that there's a million EMP books out there, but it'd be interesting to see what it would be like if it was just a CME and not an EMP at all. No power at homes and such, but everyone's able to drive home and then drive around for as long as gas lasts.

Boston_Joe
01-01-2018, 04:50 PM
While not a CME/EMP story the "Holding Their Own" series by Joe Nobody has a theme of limited resources and working vehicles. Bobby Akart's "Blackout" series is a CME, but it's a massive one that takes everything out.

Murphy
01-01-2018, 07:24 PM
It's very interesting, the differences between a CME and EMP weapons.
Granted, I know that there's a million EMP books out there, but it'd be interesting to see what it would be like if it was just a CME and not an EMP at all. No power at homes and such, but everyone's able to drive home and then drive around for as long as gas lasts.

There are some big differences. A nuclear EMP will knock out your electronics but its not likely to do much more than that at a residential level. A CME however is a different animal and can burn down your home by over heating the electrical systems connected to the grid. Its not a certainty, but it can happen. This is why I have 9 commercial sized fire extinguishers in my home. Imagine you have a fan running at 120 volts and then all of a sudden, the voltage is increased to 160, 180, 250, 400, 1000, and keeps climbing over the course of several minutes. That's how a CME works. The motor coils in the fan get a higher voltage that causes the fan to speed up, causes the motor to heat up, eventually the windings break down and arc sending sparks to your carpet. The same thing will happen with your light bulbs, toaster, washing machine(s), etc.

Whereas, with an EMP, the voltage feeding the fan goes from 120 to 100,000 and then to zero within 1 billionth of a second. Its not enough time to allow motor windings to heat up, but its enough voltage to fry any microcircuit or transistor.

A Walmart surge protector can protect you from a CME but it can not protect you from an EMP. The EMP is just too fast for the consumer grade surge protectors to respond to.

The long term ramifications of both events have their pro's and con's and if you think about it carefully, its difficult to pick one if you had the fantasy land choice. With an EMP, its local, it destroys everything and leaves a localized region (like the USA) vulnerable. An EMP will destroy solar systems, wind turbines, hospital equipment, aircraft electronics, cell phones, etc. There may not be an unprotected computer left running.
On the up side, an EMP is only localized and while it could allow our enemies an opportunity, it could also allow our friends to help us. An EMP is unlikely to start fires, and since an EMP is localized, and since most electronics are made outside the USA, replacements would come quickly.

With a CME, its global. Everyone is in the same boat and will suffer the same damage. There won't be anyone left untouched to provide aid or help. But on the positive side, a CME won't destroy all the solar systems or other small scale power generating equipment, it won't destroy hospital equipment like cardiac monitors or surgical equipment if they're unplugged or protected with surge protectors..... and the best part of a CME is that IT WON'T BE A SURPRISE. NASA will know a large CME is heading our way hours before it hits and could alert everyone. Simply flipping the main breaker off in your home would be enough to protect everything and cars will still run.

Both will result in large scale population reductions for the affected areas and both will result in a change of life for five to ten years or more.

Cwi555
01-01-2018, 10:52 PM
Thought about it, but no. Just too damn tired.

WhiteBear620
01-02-2018, 05:00 PM
To be really frank about it, I wouldn't expect any legitimate help to the US in the event of an EMP.
Everything comes at a cost, I doubt the "allies" will be helping us without looking to get something out of it, simply because of the massive size that this problem could be. Also, many of the people we consider allies do not have the same ideas of liberty and freedom we have, lots of FEMA camp setups probably where at least your 1st, 2nd, 4th amendment rights will be violated. That will happen any ways with FEMA camps, but I wouldn't expect it all to be voluntarily at all.
And, in the event that we are hit by an EMP and do not immediately respond with an EMP to possible threats (I'm not advocating attacking other countries unprovoked, it's just a possibility) to try to level the playing field, we could expect China at least to make a landing on the west coast. Cartels may or may not be a problem in the south west.
Of course, there's also the chaos that would happen, so any help coming would probably be struggling with millions of angry, hungry, tired, and sick people.

airdrop
01-02-2018, 06:31 PM
From what I read as the earths magnetic shield weakens it might not take a very strong CME to kick our butts , isn't that special .

Murphy
01-02-2018, 09:55 PM
I really enjoyed the Going Home series of books a lot.. that said, I don't think China or Russia invading us is going to be an issue as we'd still have a nuclear deterrent to hold that kind of stuff off. I also don't think some Nazi style take-over by the feds or DHS is realistic. While our government does some stupid and wasteful things, as well as occasionally oversteps its own authority, I do not believe the federal government is some evil empire looking for an opportunity to strike.

I think a far more realistic, albeit more boring scenario, would be various types of real foreign help and aid at the cost of some very expensive political concessions and/or debt forgiveness.

Of much more concern would be the well being of the minorities in our country. I'd feel sorry for the Muslims, Hindu's, and pretty much anyone else that doesn't fit the European "I'm a white guy" profile.

The one part I think was realistic was the portrayal of the criminal element. The petty crimes, rape, murder, and how they're dealt with.

A CME would put everyone on the planet in the same boat, but an EMP would only hurt one localized area. How things play out would depend on which one hit us.

Boston_Joe
01-03-2018, 08:39 AM
And thats the joy of fiction writing. the author gets to carve out their very own universe where all of these things are not only possible but come to pass. Without these events and circumstances the story would be nothing.

Yes, the aid would come with a price. Nothing is free. I've read book 9 and much of what is being sent is from the UK and the other members of the commonwealth. A great chunk of our debt to them was prepaid in the early 20th century. I would suspect that they realize that a strong US is vital to their own interests and would act accordingly.

The Non European white ethnicities wold be hit hard. But it would tend to be because they have settled in the cities which will be especially hard hit. High population density and limited resources will take their toll quickly. Will there be fighting along ethnic/religious lines? Most likely. People will at first gather into groups based on those criteria. It's a trust thing, "They believe and or look like me, therefore they can be trusted". So, on the surface it may appear that the fighting between those groups is based on ethnic/religious differences when in fact it is more likely about what each group perceives the other to possess that they will need or want. Without the rule of law I think it will be more of a free for all in the cities, first among groups and then individuals as resources become more and more scarce.

Personally, I think anyone who carries those sort of prejudices into the "the end of civilization" will not survive as long as those open to cooperation from wherever it presents itself.

0utlaw
01-03-2018, 09:18 AM
I think the PC versions of racism/discrimination will become totally irrelevant in a SHTF scenario. If you are attacked or threatened by a specific group consistantly and DON'T start treating all the members of that group as hostile you won't survive. The idea of profiling being a negative thing will be long gone, it will be the new normal, if you can't key in on certain signs or behaviors you will die.
The PC idea that if I harm more of one group than another then it must be because of racial bias will be replaced with the reality that if I harm more of one group it's because more of them were a threat.

Murphy
01-03-2018, 05:03 PM
I think the PC versions of racism/discrimination will become totally irrelevant in a SHTF scenario. If you are attacked or threatened by a specific group consistantly and DON'T start treating all the members of that group as hostile you won't survive. The idea of profiling being a negative thing will be long gone, it will be the new normal, if you can't key in on certain signs or behaviors you will die.
The PC idea that if I harm more of one group than another then it must be because of racial bias will be replaced with the reality that if I harm more of one group it's because more of them were a threat.

There's nothing wrong with profiling so long as its not based on race or ethnicity. If you're being attacked by bikers wearing leather and tattoos who sport purple Mohawk haircuts, you'd be smart to profile against that description. But profiling, as we normally use the term, refers to race, color, or ethnic grouping. Basing your profiling on such attributes is wrong, and while it may be ethically and morally wrong, far more importantly, its logically wrong. Holding the actions of a few people against the rest of their ethnic/racial group is foolish and stupid as well as counter productive.

Boston_Joe
01-03-2018, 05:26 PM
Sorry but you seem to be comfortable with biases as long as they are your own. Holding the actions of a few bikers wearing leather and tattoos while sporting purple Mohawks against the rest of the bikers wearing leather and tattoos while sporting purple Mohawks community is foolish and stupid as well as counterproductive.

To be clear. I am not supporting being a racist or bigoted against any specific group. However if perhaps it came to be known that an EMP attack(or any other attack) was carried out by any one specific group I would certainly be wary of anyone from that group unless I knew them and trusted them. Even then they would have to be a direct threat to me.

0utlaw
01-03-2018, 06:12 PM
Joe to me that is logic, common sense even. To others that makes you a racist. My point was in the SHTF world that political correctness may very well get you killed.
If you go to a high crime area and go to condition 2 are you a racist? Well what if all the potential BGs you see are a race other than yours, does that make you a racist? Maybe...or maybe it means that you are in a high crime area that is heavily populated by a race other than yours and you don't want to be a victim.

Boston_Joe
01-03-2018, 06:41 PM
I agree. Even now, never mind if the SHTF I am not someone who trusts those who I do not know. Trust is earned. too often I've seen people taken advantage of by someone they didn't know who was vouched for by someone they did.

To me that makes you aware of your surroundings and less likely to be a victim.

Murphy
01-03-2018, 07:24 PM
Sorry but you seem to be comfortable with biases as long as they are your own. Holding the actions of a few bikers wearing leather and tattoos while sporting purple Mohawks against the rest of the bikers wearing leather and tattoos while sporting purple Mohawks community is foolish and stupid as well as counterproductive.

To be clear. I am not supporting being a racist or bigoted against any specific group. However if perhaps it came to be known that an EMP attack(or any other attack) was carried out by any one specific group I would certainly be wary of anyone from that group unless I knew them and trusted them. Even then they would have to be a direct threat to me.

I guess you have to define what you mean by group. If I keep getting attacked by leather and tattoo clad bikers sporting purple Mohawks, you can rest assured I'll shoot the next one I see before they have a chance to attack me. People of such groups choose to be part of such groups.

But just because you get attacked by a black guy or an Arab Muslim, does not mean the rest of them are in on it. Likewise, just because a Christian attacks me does not mean I'm going to hold all Christians as being part of the same group. That's called "bigotry".

The difference lies in choice. You get to pick if you want to sport a purple Mohawk, ride a motorcycle and get tattooed and become a member of that groups gang colors, you don't get to pick what race you're from or where you were born.

Murphy
01-03-2018, 07:28 PM
I agree. Even now, never mind if the SHTF I am not someone who trusts those who I do not know. Trust is earned. too often I've seen people taken advantage of by someone they didn't know who was vouched for by someone they did.

To me that makes you aware of your surroundings and less likely to be a victim.

I've seen the same, but I've also seen just as many people get screwed over by people they've known for a long time and do trust. The term "con-artist" is short for "confidence artist", a person who is skilled in human behavioral modification and uses those skills to gain the trust of others.

W.Lynn
01-04-2018, 12:14 AM
You guys probably already know I'm not giving up bikes OR leather. And now we have to stay friends forever, because I haven't completely ruled out possible future tats or purple mohawks.

You know you want pics.

Also, you know the rules.

Rule #1, be polite to people you meet.

Rule #2, immediately figure out how you will kill these wonderful persons, should you need to.

Murphy
01-04-2018, 02:26 AM
Hey, I got nothing against bikes, leather, or Mohawks.... just so long as they're not shooting at me.

0utlaw
01-04-2018, 08:10 AM
Hey, I got nothing against bikes, leather, or Mohawks.... just so long as they're not shooting at me.
The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on.

Joseph Heller

Boston_Joe
01-04-2018, 08:48 AM
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

General James Mattis

I would find this especially true during a SHTF scenario.


EDIT:I missed W.Lynn's comment above before I posted this, but I believe it some it up nicely.
Yes, pictures would be required. Feel free to alter the color of the Mohawk to whatever color brings out your eyes the best.

Jstwaiting
01-04-2018, 03:31 PM
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

General James Mattis

I would find this especially true during a SHTF scenario.

(This is on the cover of the notepad I carry. Not yet but probably soon)